Dilemma

Oh dear SJP I'm so sorry that you've been having such a difficult time with your ex d.i.l. I think the advice you've had is excellent but it's going to be very hard for you to keep your contact with her to a bare minimum if you're unable to see your GC unless she is present.

It might be an idea to see them with her in a public place. I don't know how old your GC are so that may not be do able if they're still quite young but it may well curb her unpleasantness if she can be overheard and the children also being present may also help.

I'm sure you haven't made every mistake a MIL can make, sometimes we MIL's and mothers come to that, can't do right for doing wrong so don't be too hard on yourself.

Our son cut us out of his life over 3.5 years ago, we haven't seen our eldest GC since he was 8 months old, he was 4 last week, and our second was born just 2 months ago and even though they live just 15 doors down the road, I doubt we'll ever see him.

I understand how difficult this situation is for you but take comfort in the fact that although it isn't going to be easy, you are still able to see your GC.
Have an escape route in mind before you meet up with her and the GC so if things do become too unpleasant you can leave. Will your husband be there with you? Could you tell someone what time you're meeting and say, an hour in, get them to ring you on your mobile so if you need to leave, you can use that call as the reason why?

Try not to become over anxious before meeting up with her, easier said than done I know and regard her as a means to an end to maintain that all important contact with your GC.

Best of luck.

Oh, SJP, my heart goes out to you! Of all things to have to see your GC only in ex-dil's presence when she's the one who seems to be so against you and makes you anxious!

I think Smileless has given you some excellent advice though. Want to add that if the kids are little, the public place you meet in should probably be a park or a child-friendly restaurant with, maybe, a playground or something like that. Then you can focus on the kids and what they're doing and how cute they are, etc. and avoid any "heavy" issues.

As far as minimizing contact is concerned, I think you can do it if you keep it just to brief phone calls/ emails/texts about where and when to meet and whatever conversation you have at the chosen destination. After a while, if you have a regularly scheduled visit and at a specific place, you won't even have to contact each other about that - just show up on time and so forth. It might be a good idea to keep the number and length of visits to a minimum, too (meeting at a public place may also help with that). Just enough so that you keep up a relationship with your GC without having to endure that much contact with exdil.

I understand your going with your son to meetings regarding his visitation with his children. But I don't think it's really necessary. It was thoughtful of you to be there for, I guess, moral support. But as you see, all it did was end up getting you into trouble (sigh). So in the future, one way you could cut down contact with exdil is to avoid such meetings. Your son is an adult and I'm sure he can handle them himself.

Whatever happened at that meeting, I don't get why it ended up in your visits having to be supervised by exdil. But, no matter, as Smileless says, at least, perhaps you can take comfort in knowing you're getting to see them. I think it was very wise of you to get into counseling and I imagine your counselor can advise you on how to minimize your anxiety when you see exdil.

But are you saying that you don't think you can deal with the stress, period? It may sound awful, but I've known GPs who have given up on seeing their GC rather than deal with a difficult dil (or sil, or whoever). Is that how you feel? Or do you feel seeing your GC is worth having to be around exdil? If you feel it's worth it ( I know I would), then you may just have to grit your figurative teeth and bear with exdil for the duration of those visits.

Wishing you the best! (((Hugs)))

Thanks for the advice, without revealing too much the situation is quite complicated. My GC are quite young and public places is how it works. My son is not permitted to have the children on his own, and I am one of his approved supporters. I have had regular contact with my GC and I write to them regularly but arranging contact was always fractious as ex DIL is not really committed to the children having contact with me - my main concern is that the children pick up on the tension and this does not make for a postive contact for them. I requested mediation so we could work through how contact will work but this has been refused. My relationship with my son is improving but he has concerns that making arrangements for me to see the children and managing ex DIL expectations may impact on his contact with the children - she has threatened to call off contact if things are not to her liking where his contact is concerned. I have backed off to give him space for his contact arrangements to settle down and my focus is rebuilding my relationship with him so that GC contact will be restored in due course. I have requested if I can phone GC but no response. I also add I live 170 miles away so a trip is not a small undertaking for me and for my own safety I cannot afford to be upset when I make the journey. Its all so difficult

I don't know how often you are allowed to see the children but is it possible you can take someone with you ( they can amuse themselves elsewhere whilst you are with the children) so you have someone to help calm you if you are upset before the return drive or preferably can share the driving with you. I'm so sorry for you but if you can I would still try to have contact with the grandchildren not only for your own pleasure but because you are a very important attachment figure for them to help keep everything stable in their lives. They must be confused and unsettled by all this if not old enough to fully understand it. Good luck !

Thanks for filling us in a little more SJP. I understand your reluctance to give too many details. However, that may be why I'm a little confused. Apparently, for some reason, your son has to have supervised visitation with his children (I realize that must be hurtful for you to know). If I've got this right, you've been approved to be one of those who can supervise his visits, even though your relationship with him isn't 100%. With all due respect that doesn't make sense to me and I suspect there must be a lot of tension during those visits. Am I wrong?

Anyhow, now it seems ithas been decided that your visits have to be supervised, too, by ex DIL, no less. Could that be partly due to the problems between you and your son?

Also, you say you now want to focus on "rebuilding (your) relationship with" him, "so that GC contact will be restored in due course." Are you saying that he has lost his contact, for some reason, and it has to be restored? Or are you talking about your being able to see your GC w/o ex DIL there?

You don't have to answer my questions, of course. But here's what I THINK you're saying - You've decided to stay away and contact your GC only by phone, for a while, if you can. During that time, you plan to work on your relationship with your son, so that, in time, it will be good enough that you can visit with him and your GC/supervise his visits with your GC on your own, w/o ex DIL being present. But maybe I have that all wrong.

If I'm right, t sounds like a good plan, IMO. It's hard to be with GC, much less supervise visits with one of their parents, when there are issues between you and that parent. I'm not sure what or how much it will take to repair your relationship with your son. Or what will be accepted as "good enough" and so forth. But I think you're on the right track and I wish you all the best!

Just want to add, I get TwiceasNice's point about your being a stabilizing force in the kids' lives. But if the visits are wreaking havoc, even in a low key way, then, right now, IMO, the situation is not so stable, after all. So whether you continue to see your GC now or not, I agree with you that it's paramount for you and son to fix your relationship.

Hi there its difficult to reveal too much here, but the relationship with my son is in a good place from where it was a few years ago when all this kicked off. He has supported contact because managing 3 small children on his own was not considered in the children's best interest under the court order governing his contact and I supported every other contact under the court order. Now the order has changed and ex DIL can now support contact (which was previously not the case). The tension is between me and DIL rather than son, I am confident that I can keep it together at contact time but ex DIL behaviour is unpredictable and I am loathe to expose the children to any tension and have my visits associated with unpleasantness such as what happened last time. When my son and I had contact with the children we worked pretty well as a team, now Ex DIL is nit allowing this to continue. My son appreciates that ex DIL is difficult and he has real concerns about his contact being called off if he challenges her. Much of the issue is her own low self esteem, anxiety, confidence in her own parenting and coping skills.

SJP, I've just caught up with this thread and don't really have any further advice to offer - though I do suffer the same feeling of frustration when dealing (or not dealing!) with exSiL. Make sure you look after your best interests, and those of your son, as well as the children's.

Thanks for explaining further, SJP! I'm sorry about the change and understand your concerns about exposing the kids to any tensions and such. It sounds as if you're adjusting to this change the best way you can and I applaud you for it. Wishing you and yours all the best!