Nasty thread on Mumsnet about a Gransnet thread

I am also aware of a lot of anger and bitteress which seems now to be directed at ALL parents/grandparents as if we share some collective guilt

not from me, my kids have a couple of wonderful grandparents who we cherish, we're talking about estranged grandparents, so if I say in the context of this discussion the GPs I mean the estranged ones, not all grandparents, there are some jewels out there!

Leokitty, I don't think that you must by default always take whatever's thrown at you from elders out of respect if they cannot be respectful towards you. If you think we should just blindly respect our elders, then you will never be able understand why anyone walks away, so I don't know that this thread will be particularly helpful to you?

sorry notanan . You are most certainly right there.

No anger or bitterness Alea. But sadness really. I've never read Gransnet before and I've only read this thread and a bit of another one for estranged GP.

I have read through some of the comments, I did skip a few pages so forgive me if I have missed anything.

I actually feel my blood boiling reading your comments notanan. I am the daughter of one of the posters and am a mum myself.
I feel nc is a selfish and immature act.

I personally am deeply embarrassed by my sister's behaviour and hate it when I have to explain the situation to people. My crime with them, is not siding with them against my mum. They turned my brother against us and have now cut all family ties.

I even tried to resolve things with them several times, they wanted me to get on my hands and knees to beg forgiveness, which I refused. My bil threw a tantrum that I would not meet at their house on my own and was not pleased when I met my sister last year whilst pregnant.
I know he must not have been pleased, as my sister was postive when we met and I heard she had negative views afterwards, through a family member. She confirmed he knew we was meeting but I don't believe he did.

My sister admitted she was suffering from depression in her emails to me, when I let her know my baby was born, the emails ended on a sour note and again I believe it's because my bil saw the emails.

If the adult child does not wish to have a relationship with their parent, then that doesn't mean the children cannot have a relationship with their grandparent. I want my baby to be surrounded with all her family and love. In China they respect their elders and it's a shame the western world doesn't follow suit.

I just wanted to give another point of view of the situation.

Has Gransnet been taken over by Mumsnet? I am seeing a lot of unfamiliar names and it seems that some of these posters are of our DCs' generation. I am also aware of a lot of anger and bitteress which seems now to be directed at ALL parents/grandparents as if we share some collective guilt.
I'm out.

No, I was agreeing with you
That's not what you walk away from, that's what you want. What you walk away from is the hurt and pain of that not being achievable no matter what you do.

Hope you haven't taken that quote out of context. I wrote it to explain why people don't just walk away from family contact for no reason. It's ingrained in us from childhood to need and want it.

For what makes us human but a primal need and urge to love and be loved by our parents. To see them love our own children and be close to them

Yes, it's what we all desire. We don't all get it though, some of us get coldness, control, manipulation and anger towards us instead when all we desperately crave is a normal loving family. What's worse, is that the coldness and anger is labelled as "love", because for our parents, that's how love feels, and that's what they teach us to accept as "love"
But somehow.. we are lucky enough to have enough positive outsiders in our life that we learn otherwise, and we learn that our parents way of "loving" is not okay. We can hope and try to make the version of "love" that is expressed by our parents more normal, or if that's not achievable, at least within some ground rules to do some damage control.

But if they still think their way of loving is okay. And it still not only hurts and damages us, but begins to damage our children.. then we might finally be forced to walk away from what we've wanted our whole lives, but never quite achieved, the hope of a healthy relationship with our parents.

infer

verb
deduce or conclude (something) from evidence and reasoning rather than from explicit statements.

So yes I inferred.

I said planned ...... Meaning having made your choices you made a plan...ergo ...planned.

I never said preferred.

No I don't think anyone hopes to be pushed away by their parents..... I didn't say that.

You obviously didn't read my post.

So I inferred from that you were set on your planned course of action
none of this was my planned or preferred "course of action", you think anyone hopes to be pushed away by their parents to the point of having to go NC just to save your family from more damage?
What an utterly strange perspective you have on all of this. "planned course of action". Amazing!

No I'm not angry at you, I just find your posts about me as fascinating as they are bizarre

I became estranged from my whole family many years ago. It was the most important and best decision I've ever made, though of course it wasn't easy.

Not sure why I've read these threads but it only confirmed in my mind why it had to be this way.

It's the circular arguments that go round and round and round, with no resolution. It's just the same here and I would advise anyone being triggered to step away.

No sane adult merely decides one sunny morning that they won't speak to their family again. There are always reasons. For what makes us human but a primal need and urge to love and be loved by our parents. To see them love our own children and be close to them. That is usually given up with a lot of heart ache. I can tell you that the pain I felt was like a chain around my heart. But the chain is broken now and I feel free.

And yes I'm sure my family hurt too but they have no insight into how they could grow and change and bring themselves happiness and meaningful relationships. I feel very sorry for them.

When I left, my other relationships became much stronger because the time I'd spent having these circular arguments and dramas were now spent with people who treated me like an adult.

I have three children and I would do or say anything to make our relationship work. Sorry even if deep down I felt I'd done nothing wrong. Keeping quiet when necessary. Praising, listening, looking inside myself, therapy what the hell ever it took.

Love is all there is. There is nothing more important than my children. They would be an awful price to pay for being right.

I am not even mildly annoyed notanan . Did you read that from my comments? Because you couldn't be further from the truth.

Would you like me to be? Or is that just how you read my post?

I don't want to 'fix' your situation, I only offered my thoughts . I wouldn't think for a moment I could fix anything much on a forum.

I said you were 'immovable' because you appear to have reached a conclusion that works for you and you have said many times you've tried everything. So I inferred from that you were set on your planned course of action - immovably.

Are you angry with me notanan ?

It's also interesting that on the one had I am being inconsistent because I brought up whether there could be any future contact (as in, the GN thread lef me thinking: probably not!) as well as explaining why no contact is probably the best case scenario.

What is wrong with being sad that it has to be NC as well as recognising that NC is the happiest option available to us?

Which am I? inconsistant or immovable? they're mutually exclusive descriptions

You've got something in common with my mother in that respect NanaandGrampy.

Say I had a bad day at work and I made the mistake of telling her:

"How's work?"
"Generally fine, but today was stressful, had a meeting about X or Y"
"why don't you quit, you could do Z instead"
"no I don't want to quit, like the job, I just had a rough day"
"well! why did you bother asking me if you're just going to continue doing what you're doing anyway"
"I was just saying I had a bad day, it's not important"
"Now you're dismissing me, I'm not allowed an opinion! You're always silencing me"
"Because I don't want to quit my job?"
"well, if you're so unhappy in your job then what else should I suggest"
"You don't have to suggest anything, I''m not unhappy in the job generally, just had a stressful day, I'm sorry I mentioned it, was just making conversation"
"well why did you bring it up if you're just going to rubbish anything I have to say about it?"

NanaandGrampy, you seem annoyed with me because your suggestions can't "fix" the situation I described (I know because I've tried them all!). Is that why you me as "immovable" ?

In what way am I immovable? what "movement" have you suggested other than ones I have in fact tried (but you assumed I hadn't) I actually have done all of the things you suggested I do NanaandGrampy so in what way does that make me "Immovable"?

What were the alternatives?

I love your post notanan where you make a summary of this thread ( and in case there be any doubt I'm being sarcastic) . I've readthrough your many many posts again and I simply don't see some of the conclusions you have reached at all.

And before you hasten to list all the he said/ she said notes from various posters , please don't trouble yourself I, like you have reached some conclusions.

Firstly ,the trouble with the written word/ text is that it is open to interpretation. Two people can read the same thing and both take away something different.

Secondly, that you weren't expecting a consensus or even advice on your position because you're immovable. And that's fine , it's your life.

And finally , what I wonder was the point? That's not being sarcastic, just questioning.

I'm in two minds but have a shrewd suspicion I know why.

Anyway, I for one have been interested to read your posts , but as you said previously we are on opposing sides in this debate I think.

Tricia LTB = Leave the bastard.
Yes, I know

Listening doesn't have to mean comming to a conclusion one way or another. There isn't an "answer" to people's life stories. I find it incredibly helpful just to hear from other people have had similar experiences, that to me is helpful.

Maybe people don't post to be "fixed" or confirmed as correct or incorrect. They just post to "get it out"

Thanks for the compliment! It just seems to me that everyone wants to tell their own tale (usually involving a complaint about men) and isn't listening to anybody else - because there are too many members.

There are a few "listeners", but most just want to solve everything by "LTB" whatever that means.
And please, tell me why it's so great to have been "in therapy"?
I despair.

I've been following some threads on Mumsnet the last few days, mostly the relationship ones, and get the impression that there's huge number of members. They all chip in and end up with a jumble of opinions and no consensus. Not even two strong opposing opinions, which we often get on here.
I sometimes wonder if the OP ends up more confused than ever about her problem.

I think this comment hands down wins the thread as an own goal

No, the threads don't reach a "consensus".. what were you expecting? "yes, we all agree that all our parents are X, Y and Z"?
Thats…. a really mechanical and odd expectation from a support thread

They wind on as people share their individual experiences. It might go like:
A"I am remember a particular instant where my parents said ___ "
B"Mine never did that, quite the opposite actually, rather than criticise me all the time they were just plain disinterested"
C"My experience was more similar to Bs than As, except it also had the added dynamic of_______"
B"That must have been hard C, in some ways I think I'm lucky that I didn't have siblings to be compaired to"

And so on…

Why would they have to reach a "consensus", it's sharing stories? some posters will have a lot in common with others, some wont. They don't need to all sing from the same hymn sheet by the end or "pick a side"

It's been very interesting, this thread. In particular the responses to my own story:

You were unreasonable to cut off conact just like that
I didn't, it was a long process, too long
Well, you should have told her what your problem with her was
I did
You didn't tell her what the problem is, you gave her no chance (again)
I did tell her
Well, you didn't give her a chance to change
I gave her many. Years worth. Too long.
Well… it's still your fault, if she couldn't change it's still probably your fault somehow.. see! you said that she never changed when you gave her chances to!, that means that YOU don't believe she will change, which is a character fault on your behalf!

So it's always going to be my fault. And that's okay. My mother can blame me for going NC without giving her yet another chance. I know I gave her YEARS of second chances.

Then: I don't believe that a lot of people who make allegations of abuse in relationships are liars = you lack empathy and are nasty.

It's interesting how the conversations from EGPs go in cycles. In one instance it's implied that masses of ACs are going NC totally out of the blue! for no reason.
Then.. later in the GPs discussion the same posters say they are being "lied" about, "assassinated" and berated.
That doesn't add up.
It just doesn't add up.
How can they "lie" about you if they "gave you no reason"? The two are mutually exclusive!
What you are saying is the "lies" and you being "berrated" are their reasons. So they didn't go NC "for no reason" did they?, at best they went NC for reasons you don't agree with or believe. They still gave their reasons.

Just because the person being "dumped" in the relationship doesn't agree with the other persons reasons, or doesn't believe them, or believes them to be lies. doesn't make the dumping "unjustified"

Bye Bye!

They all chip in and end up with a jumble of opinions and no consensus.

Don't suppose it's ever occurred to you that consensus isn't needed? Discussions aren't like management meetings!

Not even two strong opposing opinions, which we often get on here.

Don't you just. Factional division, one might say, or 'taking sides'.

It's been illuminating. Thanks for having me.

And the language - Jings' is mild in comparison!

I've been following some threads on Mumsnet the last few days, mostly the relationship ones, and get the impression that there's huge number of members. They all chip in and end up with a jumble of opinions and no consensus. Not even two strong opposing opinions, which we often get on here.
I sometimes wonder if the OP ends up more confused than ever about her problem.

Yes jingl I do believe you can.