Support for those estranged from family members. Moving on together,

I know what I'm about to say is controversial because it is the children in all of these circumstances who are the most important, but I don't agree that a parent who is being deliberately denied access to their own child should have to pay child support.

I agree totally that children shouldn't have to suffer because one or both parents is unable or unwilling to behave in a responsible way, but if for eg. the mother is receiving all the financial support she and her child(ren) are entitled too, she should be made to give the father access.

I don't believe that any loving parent would use their own child as a weapon, deny them a loving parent because of their own spite but perhaps if the consequences of doing so impacted on them they might not be so quick to do so.

You're right UkeCan, it is sick and it's time that something was done about it. It's child abuse.

That's very sad Granarchist at least your friend got away from her controlling husband in the end. You say she had very controlling parents so regarded her husband's behaviour as normal; I can understand that. What I can't understand is how an adult, who was raised in a normal loving family, saw first hand how his/her parents relationship and marriage was conducted, allows themselves to be controlled by their partner to the extent that they lose their own parents and in many cases their entire family.

How do they square it? How can they see their own relationship as healthy and appropriate while simultaneously viewing the destruction all around them, that they and their partner have caused?

It's strange isn't it Luckylegs and very sad. Maybe your friend is still seeking approval from her parents. It's well documented how especially young children, stretch out their arms toward the parent(s) whose abusing them.

In his response to my 'goodbye' email, our ES said he knew he'd had a good childhood So what the hell's going on then. Didn't bother to ask him, just can't be bothered with it all anymore.

Yes Luckylegs I sometimes wonder if it will do more harm than good to wee DGD if she is caught in the middle of parents who don't get on. Her Mum would make her life a misery as she is a very jealous woman as well as controlling. now my DS has been receiving blank emails from his ex wife's ex boyfriend! He doesn't know whether they are back together or whether she has hacked her ex's email account ( she did this before with my DS's email account). Either way she or they are trying to cause him more distress. It's sick!
Regarding CSA he appealed to them and said he couldn't afford to go to work as they are taking so much off him and they told him he might be better going on the dole! He loves his job and would hate to give that up as well as everything else. I din't realise that CSA is a business and take 20% of all payments.

Ukecan, it makes me so mad when these mothers keep fathers away. They are just as entitled to see their children as mothers, to deny them that, unless the father is abusive or would be really bad for that child is cruel.so many fathers and mothers just don't want to know their children, then there are those, just good decent people that are denied them as the resident parent uses the child as a mean of control. It is about time the courts realised both parent have equal rights and act accordingly. Just how you stop that controlling parent brainwashing the child when they have them I don't know. Think perhaps a father would just back off ad he wants above all his child to be happy. It is just not fair. The constant battle takes its toll. I had good parents and was lucky, they were together until my mother's death, so I had security but if things had been different and my mother had tried to stop me seeing my dad, I would have sort him out when old enough and my relationship with her would have suffered because if it. One day these children will see the truth unless they turn out like the one they live with, meanwhile you just have to make the best of it as there is nothing you can do. What I have noticed is that someone I know who had the most awful selfish parents, cannot do enough for them, almost as if she is seeking approval.!

Smileless2012 I was terrified. It was because the husband of my best friend was trying to stop me supporting her and 'wanted a chat'. I told my DD what was going to happen and she helped me. I just wanted proof in case he cut up rough with me. As it happened he was pretty pathetic 'I'm just trying to save my marriage - poor little me' utter nonsense. He was totally controlling. She left him but it cost her a fortune. He managed to relieve her of most of her parents' legacy. Strangely they now sort of get on. Trouble is she was controlled by her parents her entire life so she regarded it as normal that her husband should do the same. So sad.

I agree Smileless it is tantamount to child abuse to deny a child a relationship with a parent simply out of spite. But nobody in authority seems interested. On the Fathers4Justice Facebook page there are 100's of similar stories of Dads who are denied access to their kids. They have tried to get help through the authorities and through their MP's but to no avail. These poor kids are the forgotten segment of society. One day they will ask questions.

Granarchist I only wish I had done that! Especially when I was round the corner of my DS's driveway when he was trying to talk reasonably to his ex about finances for his baby.
His ex threw hobnailed boots at him and told him to F* off and keep his f**** money she didn't want it. Only to report him to CSA for not supporting her. They are now taking so much money off him that he can barely survive and hasn't seen his little girl for a year ( neither have we). He would happily have paid her from the start. His solicitor says there is no reason why he shouldn't have access as he has done no harm but his ex does not respond to any letters from his solicitor so it is taking ages.

We move out on Friday Celeb but it's doubtful we'll be completing. Another spanner in the works last Wednesday so we're putting everything into storage until we get back from Florida. If we don't complete while we're away (have a feeling our buyers buyer is going to pull out) we'll go ahead with our purchase when we get back.

Not ideal, but we can complete on our purchase even if we don't get ours sold in which case it'll go back on the market and that bit will start all over again. We just don't want to lose the house we've set our hearts on.

That was me Ukecan; met Mr. S. when I was 16, married at 19 and 2 boys by the time I was 22. All I wanted was a husband and children of my own. Good job we don't know what's coming isn't it.

You're right Luckylegs, the heart has gone out of it. The couple who are buying it have a 4 year old son, same age as our eldest GS. Wonder what ES will do if his wife becomes friendly with her and they get invited round to the house where he grew up. The thought of him having to endure that is rather amusing, to say the least.

Fairydoll, your d.i.l., ours and sooo many seem to have been cut from the same tarnished cloth, not to mention some s.i.l.'s too. That poor little innocent girl, your GD. So many children being denied a parent and/or grandparents. It's wicked, wicked to use children in this way and those that do aren't fit to be parents and I include my own son in that.

To say it's been hard living so close for the last 4 years would be an understatement; not sure how we've lived through it TBH but we have. The end is in sight; I don't know whether to laugh or cry, be happy or sad.

Oooh that must have been a bit nerve wracking Granarchist, did you get away with it? What if you'd been found out?

Luckylegs your post made me cry because I know exactly how you feel. I too keep thinking I must be an awful person and a terrible Mum. But then I look around me and see that other people - relatives/friends like/love me and I think well I can't be that bad...
If we were awful people we wouldn't be on here supporting each other, looking for answers and giving advice.
I think keeping busy is the only way. I keep myself so busy that I don't have a minute to think...until I'm in bed, then my brain goes haywire with it all.
You are a lovely person and you must concentrate on looking after yourself and keeping healthy so you will be strong. We will all be here for each other. xxxxx

UkeCan61 if you want to record conversations it is not hard. I had to do it once and I hid a dictaphone under a teatowel in my kitchen. These days you could use a mobile phone and no-one would know. Worth a thought if you ever need proof.

Smileless, the house looked tired because the heart had gone out of it, when the new people make it theirs it will take on a new life. If only we could do that. When you move into the new one you start afresh and you havedone so well, just enjoy your holiday.
Celebregran, thank you girl you'd kid offer of the chocolates, today I went out with three friends and saw Bridget Jones, I ate a half pound block of nut chocolate, feel so ashamed, no one wanted any, they are all nice and slim, only bought it to share but one bite and I'm hooked. Ukecan, like you I can't believe how I am in this position, never in a million years did I think my children wouldnt be there and love me, I could never have done it to my parents, I wake in the night thinking I must be an awful person and deserve it because it's not natural. Then I come on here and it makes me see that I am not alone. I was doing so well before my falls, it is stupid because everything is fine and I am grateful for that, it just made me feel vulnerable, but I can and will garden up. Keeping busy helps new and I have things planned all this week, got to work off that chocolate for a start. Fairy doll, it would have shaken me up to, not being able to hold that little boy must have been awful, good job it doesn't happen too often

Smileless I know what you mean when you look back over what you've written down. It seems unfathomable like it's someone else's life. I lie in bed each night and each morning when I wake up at 5ish trying to sort it all out in my head. It all goes round and round and round and never makes any sense and I just end up with a migraine. All I ever wanted was a family; I was desperate to have kids and was over the moon when I had my 1st one at 22. By 28 I had 3. I loved being a Mum and look back with pleasure at those happy times. I never dreamt in a million years it would turn out like this. We can never have nice family occassions, or even all meet up for a coffee or a drink in a pub. My 2 DGD's (my DD's kids - the ones I do see) don't even know their uncle and auntie. I know it's a cliche but what did we all to deserve this? ?☕️??xxxxx

Hi girls, I've just had a bit of time to look back over some of your posts and saw the ones about keeping nasty letters/emails. To a certain extent I can understand the advice about destroying them but for some it may be important evidence of an abusive relationship. My nasty ex DiL is extremely clever in that she has never sent any nasty correspondence to any of us and is not on any social media so although she has said really nasty things to my DS and my other DC there is no proof. My DS has seen her nasty behaviour to her own parents as well but they cover up for her. Nobody would ever believe she is like that as she puts on a sugar coated front and everyone is taken in by her. Everyone is different in how they deal with things and I have deleted some of the nasty emails my DS and my ED sent eachother during the time nasty DiL was stirring us all up against each other. I know we were just reacting in anger - which is exactly what she wanted! Looking back I can't believe we all got entrenched in her antics and allowed ourselves to be drawn in. That is how controllers work!

Thanks Fairydoll. What is it with these women? I can understand you not reacting to her 'reaching out'. There is always the fear that if you let her in she will do the same again because such people seem unable to live peaceably with other people.
I'm so glad that you see your DGS even if not in the best of circumstances.
I do think that if my DS ever gets access to his little girl (15 month old) it will be hard work and unpleasant for all concerned - especially DGD. I can just imagine wee Holly going home after a day with Daddy, excited to tell Mummy all about it and she would just take the wind out of her sails by putting her Daddy down. She was already poisoning her little mind against Daddy when the baby was 3 mths old!

Ukecan61. I don't post here very often so doubt you will know my story. Briefly' have been estranged for over a year from sons partner. They have a 2 year old child.
She is what you might call 'A piece of work,'. Very difficult - acts like a petulant teenager although in her mid 30's. Has made wild and quite serious accusations against DH and me, all totally untrue and off the wall. We've turned the other cheek once too often.

After her last 'performance' last year, she cut herself off from us. However there have been 'signs' of her reaching out recently through my son but we have ignored them. We are enjoying the peace and our son brings DGS to see us regularly.

Today, DH and I went to an out of town supermarket. DH parked up and waited for me. On my return he was gesticulating wildly and mouthing, 'It.s her'. Following his gaze I realised it was her, and she was parked in the row in front putting DGS into the car. He was having a screaming fit! Seemed so odd as our instinct was to get out and see him, but common sense dictated best to drive off and leave well alone. It was a minuscule taste of what it feels like for posters like the lovely Smileless who has had to endure living in the same road as her two DGS and not being able to smile and say hello.

Wow smilless is it Friday you move? Or u going to hol home before Florida sorry can't keep track.

Just throw. Wobble as tried order ointment online for Rosie complicated need upload vets script but for some reason site would t accept.mynpasspwrkd. Asked reset twice still refuse grrrrr rang Inn End so. Much easier not before ranted at dh.

He has decided to work next year, so had to go through diary work out hol dates and Put I. Every 4th sat he working never mind I promised to support him but is a hassle.

Amen to that UkeCan I'm determined to stick around for ages and love telling DS that I hope to live long enough to spend all of his inheritance.

I honestly don't believe that our ES cares anymore. His last email was the usual nasty rant, he's so entrenched in his bitterness, anger and resentment that he can't see anything else. Our 2 sons wont be meeting at my funeral (they are still in touch) because I don't want ES to be there and Mr. S. doesn't want him at his either. He did, and I said I'd make sure ES knew where and when but a few months ago he told me he'd been thinking about it and it wouldn't be fare to everyone else. Not that he'd show up anyway but can you imagine having to face your husband's funeral not knowing if the son you haven't seen for years is going to turn up.

Best of luck for you op today Rhinestone, hope all goes well.

I think it's time you moved Celebgran, how about Scarborough then you'll be able to share your chocs with me. So glad you had a lovely birthday; you deserve it.

That last bit's always the hardest to shift Luckylegs so don't get down hearted.

I'll be glad when this week's over. We were at the house yesterday. Mr. S. dismantled our bed and took down our nice light fittings in readiness for Thursday and Friday. Our room looked awful, the house felt cold and unloved, I don't know why but it suddenly looked old and tired; just like us at the moment. I'll just be relieved when we lock the door behind us for the last time on Friday.

Oh Smileless I didn't realise you lived so close to them. How awful! They must see your 'for sale' sign - you'd think it would make your son think about what he is losing. But I know how a nasty woman can brainwash a man and turn him against those who love him and who he once loved. I do have my son back but none of my 3 DC speak to each other because she stirred them all up and drove a wedge through the whole family. It's incredible how one controlling person can have so much power over people.
I keep thinking - the next time my 3 kids will be in the same room is if they come to my funeral! I'll be glad I'm in a box! But that will hopefully not be for a long, long time as I plan to make the most of my life despite all the horribleness! ?

Ps thorntons mixed one box and milk tray other one I love milt tray mmmm

Definitely rhinestone just focus on your cataract op Monday and hope it all goes well.

We find at 71 dh and me now 62 omg we have to look after each other and our health which has gone downhill sadly since them estrangement, my bad pressure arthritis etc and now dh back need focus on each other rather than prodigal daighter to quote bel mooney,

Let's fact it she doesn't give a damn about us.

I hope it's dark chocolate Celebgran.
In some states you can only go to court if the grandchildren have divorced parents or one of the parents has passed away.
I can see pics on the Internet of our two little EGC and it breaks my heart that my ESS and his wife are so mean. The little one will be three and has no clue who we are. And I wonder how the older one who will be six feels since he had almost four years with us. My DH told me yesterday that he won't try contacting them anymore. I asked him if he cared that he wouldn't see the boys until they were 18. He said " so be it."
What's interesting is that my husband always put his kids needs ahead of his after his divorce from wife # 1. Yet they don't know that.He gave up holidays with them if they wanted to spend time with their mom's family. He always got the crumbs . He always came second but he was okay with that. Maybe he should have been more demanding with them. I really feel that when we stopped weekly babysitting because we had no life, as we were care taking three parents, that they were not happy with us.
My DH X wife sat morning to night twice a week and my DIL s mother sat another two days. It is their only GC. We were helping my DD and her kids out also as we are all my DD has. We just couldn't do it after doing it for three years and doing all the picking up and dropping off as they live 45 minutes away.
Yet we never got any help from them with their grandparents.It was all take take take and never give back.
I need to stop this. I'm getting worked up and it's not good for my blood pressure.
Okay enough. Having a cataract out on Monday. That's enough to worry about now.

Lucklegs you could have lots chocs if lived nearby I have decided not to open either box yet due to got lose quite bit cruise weight,

3 course dinner drinks wine, Mmm don't think will have weigh in today but is compulsive with me. Going to pricier bistro today for lunch invited brother and partner back afterwards going offer rest bkrthday cake and toasted tea cake no cake for me???

Happy sunday all.

Think your husband is right Celebrgran. Can I have one of your chocolates please, I have given them up but every now and again I need one, trouble is I eat the whole box when I start. Been such a battle losing this weight ,still have 8 lbs to go before I am not officially overweight, never quite get there somehow.
Hope you all well and enjoying this good weather, but Smileless, doesn't seem to have it good at the moment, how it varies over the country.
??

Rhinestone it's the law here now since 2014 if you want t apply for co tact with Gra kids u have toast tend mediation . First.

Even if ed would t attend we would have to go,

Dear husband very against it he feels we have had enough heartache,

Tend to agree now, and after lovely afternoon with my dear nephew wife and little ones need to value those that actually want us.

Hope Chinese was good Smilelss we just got In great meal and ?And good catch up oth special friends omg another huge box chocs to ration out Mmm won't open them for ages?
Lovley card makes 21 now so feeling quite blessed.

Seeing my twin tomorrow for lunch so looking forward to that oops mean today

Celebgran*Can you clarify what was said about mediation? Is that between the estranged parties?