DIL problems that I don't get

Cry I mean, sorry

Good grief,give me an animal over some people any day.Your DIL obviously got a problem with something,but then it's very common,maybe its women in general,some are so insecure,maybe it's to do with you and your daughter,perhaps she's resentful,
I've found out over time,my own DIL had a traumatic upbringing,that's why she's so unstable and insecure. I just step back now,let her be,she usually comes round.[she knows how much the kids love me,nobody could look after them better]
Leave her,just go and see the children for a couple of hours.Some of these women want it all their own way.
Step back,be there if your needed,be nice and friendly so they can't accuse you of anything,but stay in the background,shower all your love on the kids.
Mine as soon as they think I'm getting ready to go.

It really leapt out at me that dogs appeared to be part of the problem but not necessarily the whole story but there was an eagerness to see dogs as the WHOLE problem.

I do think there's something rather odd in the UK about dogs. I was recently in Italy and just as in France, there were dogs everywhere. It's true they were mostly small and definitely not aggressive breeds but they were quiet and well behaved and no one batted an eyelid. If dogs don't get the chance to learn how to behave around people then they become neurotic and may bite. It helps both children and dogs if both learn how to be calm and in control.

But dogs aside, the DIL is described as always hostile and that's hardly normal even from the point of view of simple communication skills. It may be the dogs or it may not. I don't want to get into analysing someone elses family that I don't know but it might be some kind of sibling rivalry going on - mum and daughter are close, son and DIL not (apologies OP, this may be far from the truth, just trying to suggest (hushed whisper), it may not be about the dogs!). Maybe DIL has problems as I suggested, maybe she's not a nice person, who knows.

I read something wider than dogs which was a family where 'something' is a problem, I don't have a problem with dogs myself so I wonder if the dogs are a symptom not THE cause.

Shock, horror Jalima but grannygranby please try to find a way through this. Your daughter in law may have good reason to be fearful of dogs, put your grandchildren first and other things will follow.

And some houses with dogs are um, very doggy.

Some dogs are allowed on the furniture
or even the beds!

And perhaps he agrees with his wife, especially if she has good reason to have reservations about dogs and children.

Oh! The OP said he/she was a widower

Or indeed his mother!

my son who is very successful at work and at home and us a devoted father does not want to stand up for me
He is married now and a father and is not going to stick up for his father against his wife.

Thank goodness it was NOT the little DGD he leapt at!

Why can't we edit (at least give us 10 minutes?)

It doesn't help that dogs and cyclists seem to bring out the worst kind of blind intolerance in the British,
I like some dogs and have owned dogs, but the DGC were out for a walk with their other granny recently and a huge dog leapt at her - yes, in a friendly fashion thank goodness, it was tall enough to put its paws on her shoulders and the owner seemed incapable of doing anything.
DGD1 was frightened when she was a toddler by a similar thing with a bit smaller dog which knocked her over. Thank goodness it was the little DGD he leapt at.

Perhaps it's irresponsible dog owners who are intolerant of people just going out for a walk and their understandable nervousness around strange dogs.

Just enjoy your dogs and allow those who do not like them to enjoy not being around them.

"We know it will have to be approached slowly and bit by bit." What you are saying here is that it will take time to get your DIL and her family to accept dogs. I find this attitude pretty arrogant to be quite honest with you. There is no reason at all why they should accept dogs if they do not want to. And you have no right to try and get them to do this.

Priorities! - if you want to get on with DIL and see loads of your DGDs then please stop assuming they are wrong and that it is your job to get them to change their minds. They sound to me as if they are trying to do right by you in spite of your intransigence - a trip to a restaurant on your birthday is dismissed as "rapid"!!

Cut the dogs out of the equation and start mending some fences with them. You have everything to gain and nothing to lose.

Just say: "I understand that you do not like dogs and that mine are a problem for you, so I will of course do everything I can to make sure that you and the children do not have to have contact with them. I so enjoy being with you and the children and am looking forward to seeing you soon."

Probably too late now but all our dogs have been trained from puppyhood to be happy in a cage. They travel in dog cages and if we go away to stay with people the cage comes too. They regard them as their safe place. When toddlers, or children who are not old enough to be trusted with dogs, come to our house the dogs are happy to go into their cages in the utility room where they are happy and so are nervous parents or children, (I would point out that our late lab and current JR are brilliant with children but I would NEVER trust any dog alone with a child - not fair on the dog). I am very very doggy but I was bitten fairly recently and I will not go near that dog if I can possibly help it. Safe places are the answer and nothing is safer than a cage!

seconded

Hear, hear BlueBelle. It does seem to be the only way.

Oh my word ...mental health problem because someone doesn't take to dogs what a load of tosh, it sounds like there is stubborness going on here

I cannot inderstand why believing that the dogs 'maybe' I would imagine definitely are causing the rift you then write a letter suggesting you all take them for a walk in the park and wonder why you didn't get an answer

I think this is very simple daughter in law for whatever reason isn't a dog lover and doesn't want her children around dogs and your son is obviously happy with that You and your other daughter adore your dogs and want your family to enjoy them as much as you do..... Grannygranby it's not going to happen You are in a stand off I would suggest you write a lovely invitation perhaps to a meal on neutral ground and tell them the dogs will be left at home and the dogs and son's family do not need to meet

Well for a few hours, a day, a weekend, whatever put the family first and the dogs second if they are going to stay at daughters house have the dogs at yours or vice versa

Maybe I read Azies post wrong, but DIL has a mental health problem because she doesn't want to put her children at risk with dogs that they don't know and that don't know them????
I still think she's just being sensible. Watching your child's face being sown back together is not fun. And it was a perfectly nice dog 99.9% of the time.

If you live near your daughter could you possibly leave your two dogs and her dog at your house for a few hours on Christmas Day. Walk them first and then enjoy lunch etc just with family and no dogs. It would keep the peace and your DIL may behave differently as her children get older.

Or your DIL may be a perfectly normal person who just happens not to agree with you - especially in the issue of dogs. I think it is very important that you and your DD (who shares your views) do not (even by implication) gang up on your DIL as this will be the worst way forward.

The partners that our children choose are mot always those whom we would have chosen to have a relationship with, but we have to find ways of getting on with them.

Gosh grannygrandby what a horrible story. Families are not easy is putting it mildly. It doesn't help that dogs and cyclists seem to bring out the worst kind of blind intolerance in the British, I don't understand it but I do think it's a vicious circle - dogs are banned so they see people less and are less socialised, people don't know how to behave around dogs and so dogs get banned and so on, ad infinitum.

Anyway, the 'unspoken' but known to everyone kind of hostility you've described is very hard to deal with and very hard to bring out into the open unless everyone is willing to participate. Without knowing your whole family situation, it's hard to know what to say beyond you must find a way of deciding what will be the best outcome for you personally and then stick to it.

Your DIL is not actually being very caring or thoughtful about your feelings (or those of your daughter) and the fact that your son supports her raises questions in the outsider about him (is he an appeaser) or do you have a problem with him of some sort, or is it possible she has some kind of mental health problem and he is silently defending her?

Your grand daughters are effectively being held as ransom! Could you tell yourself that there are many years yet where you will have a relationship with them and step back for the moment? The more you fret and try to sort things out, the more it puts you in the power of your DIL!

It's good that you have a warm relationship with your daughter and interesting that she is fed up with your DIL. I'd say side with her and stand up to your DIL without it becoming overtly hostile (i.e. keep some doors open) and see if that changes anything. Are you and your daughter able to make it clear that your dogs are important to you in a matter of fact way?

You must be so miserable about this whole situation which I imagine is not just about dogs but perhaps they are the symbol of it? I wonder if your DIL has a bad relationship with her own family? Or perhaps they are mistrustful of others and very inward looking. Maybe she has one of those modern conditions like narcissism or a personality disorder, think Rob in the Archers. Or is she a townie and thinks you are a country person or is she obsessed with cleanliness?

Who knows but I wish you all the best and I would say take a stand and do what makes you happy and see if you can find a way of hardening your heart a little.

Well said Luckygirl I once told someone I wasn't keen on dogs and she said 'oh and here's me thinking you were a nice person'

There's still the problem of where they're going to visit, though. If your daughter has made a stand (presumably about the dog issue?) and your DIL doesn't want to stay at yours, I don't see what can be done.

Couldn't you try to talk to your daughter and explain what people have said on here about dogs around children, even if you aren't convinced. It seems to be non-negotiable as far as your DIL and your son are concerned.

I do understand how much the dogs mean to you and what excellent company they are for you, but you are dealing with a relationship with your DIL that is already a problem, and you must jettison your wishes about the dogs as this is just another bone of contention that is wholly unnecessary. You have enough troubles with her already without adding in something that really does not matter. Forget the dogs; leave them behind when you visit and do not mention them at all.

I am sorry to say that some people who love dogs do often have this idea that they are right to love them and others are wrong/odd/misguided; and that they can "cure" these strange non-dog-lovers by strategies such as taking them to the park etc. - nothing could be further form the truth, take it from me!

Forget the dogs and concentrate on forging good relationships with this woman your son has chosen as his wife.

I also wouldn't take my children to a house with dogs. Its not uncommon.
My MIL had 2 dogs and didn't want to put them in a room when we was there. Her choice.
The children didn't go to her house because of it. Our choice.

I say 'our' because it was a joint decision. My DH knew i didn't trust dogs, we was told by Midwife and HV to be careful round them with children, i didn't want the DCs around them at a young age, neither did he and he backed me up. That is what your DS is doing.

We have three much loved dogs but never take them with us when we visit other people. Not everyone is a dog lover and certainly I can understand the concern around small children. I think maybe you need to ease off on introducing the dogs to the children as it is clearly a bone of contention ( no pun intended )
Talk to your son and daughter in law and agree way forward which does not include the dogs at least for the time being.