Advices gratefully received

Fairy and dewy We all beat ourselves up at first, thinking we must have done or not done something which has resulted in this situation but in my case the rest of my family have assured me that this dil has a personality disorder and that none of it is my fault. She twists everything and invents things which haven't happened. Interestingly she has fallen out dramatically with a sibling and a parent and has no contact with them at all.

It is hard but if your conscience is clear stop beating yourself up, there is no point.

gillyjp
Your last two sentences sum up my own situation exactly.
I hope that you are able to have some close moments with your son, even if it's just phone chats.

I've given this some thought and I reckon that there is an in-built jealousy there. Having to accept that their OH had a life before they met them and a mother (and sister) in their lives who were the most important females before they arrived on the scene. It seems that they want to blot all their OH's life before their relationship out, like it's some threat.

I accept that once our sons find a partner that they take another path - one that will possibly take them away from their original family - although this doesn't have to be the case. However some DiLs will always see their MiL as a threat no mattter what. The sad thing is that my son knows the score and the game that is being played but I can understand he wants a peaceful life. We were so close and no one can take that away.

When I posted my message, I had NO idea that I wasn't the only one with dil problems. In a funny way, reading all your messages has made me feel slightly better about my non-relationship with her, as I now know I'm not alone. And yes, we do beat ourselves up because we somehow think WE must have done something along the line to cause the problem, but we can't all be bad mils!
I also agree that their time will come. They will be mils one day!

Nonnie.

I would never even attempt to have it out with her! As you so rightly say, it would be a waste of time. However, initially, we beat ourselves up trying to figure out her behaviour. My last direct contact with her around 18 months ago was when she sent an email commenting on our 'behaviour and conduct'. She is (was) a teacher and it was as if she was writing a report for one of her seven year olds! When you're dealing with this sort of irrational behaviour, it's best to retreat behind the barricades as there's no defence.
You are fortunate that you have two nice DIL's. I only have one son.

Fairy don't waste any time trying to 'have it out' with her, such people are so selfish and 'right' even when patently wrong that you won't get through to her. Just see how many of us are in the same situation and leave her to get on with it.

I think about the day when GS meets a nice girl who sees what she is like and does the same to her.

Totally agree with last three posters. We have only ever received what I call 'targeted rudeness' and wild, untrue accusations from my sons's partner. We put it down to low self esteem and jealousy - but that's just guesswork as God knows what makes her act as she does towards us.

There is no way that I could ever 'have it out' with her and ask her what her problem with us is as she would probably go into a mini meltdown, and I couldn't handle that.

I can only hope that when DGS meets someone significant the young lady will take exception to his mother! Unfortunately, coming late to grandparent hood, we won't be around to witness it. You can see I have the Christmas Spirit...

There does seem to be a generation who have hatched as Nonnie described. Not all of them, obviously, but a fair few who have the words 'me, me, me' stamped on their hearts.

Possibly part of the 'everybody's a winner' and 'competition' is a bad word culture that emerged in the 80s (?). They never learned how to lose graciously or indeed win graciously either.

Spoilt little brats many of them.

gilllyjp They are like this because they are self-obsessed and can't see anyone else's point of view, totally lacking in empathy. We have to try to rise above it and be the better person but don't ever expect them to change, they won't, they are right under all circumstances!

We can comfort ourselves that those who have sons will get their just desserts in time. My 5 year old already knows that "Mummy sometimes tells lies but Grandma never does"

Fortunately I have 2 other DiLs who are wonderful and love me as much as I love them and have utter contempt for the other one.

Why are DiL's so problematic with their MiL's? I had the same problem and for many years tried to 'wear her down with kindness' and consistently made sure her sons (from a previous relationship) were always treated the same as my other GC.

Like dewy5 I have to check with my son to see if it's ok to visit. We finally fell out big time a couple of years ago and I decided that to save my sanity I would just not have them in my life. However I did send presents for my GS (which were promptly returned unopened - how hurtful is that?) Anyway I know my son was hurting and after a few rather unpleasant emails that went back and forth we tried to bury the hatchet. He wanted me to meet up with DiL on my own to patch things up between her and me first. I did do this for his sake and we did manage to finally move on. I think in the end her agreeing to meet up with me was a sort of acceptance that my son and GS needed me in their lives and my son was really suffering. Relations are much better now and we have managed to put all that behind us. I'm still quite wary though. I have said to him that if he and she have problems I don't want to know anything about it. That was the reason it all kicked off in the past as I was upset for my son at the things she was putting him through. I have told him 'you've made your bed - lie in it'. When push came to shove he protected her and rightly so, but really?? - when I was just upset by the way he was being treated.

I/we have never been invited to her house by her. Usually we ask our son if we can visit whenever it's convenient to them (her) and before a date is agreed, I always confirm with him that it's ok with her.
Unfortunately she and I do not have a relationship. I'm just her husbands mother!

She has invited you to their home at Christmas. I would treat her the same as your other dil. If someone invites me to their home I always take them something extra, at Christmas I would take champagne or flowers or both.

Oh I see dewy5, it wasn't clear that you would be at the DIL's house and I agree it would be awkward if you excluded her from the presents.

If you are actually invited to the house at Christmas, then a relationship does exist, even if she is not particularly friendly or close. If she really didn't want you there she could override your sons wishes and exclude you - so take heart at least you talk!

Fairydoll2030
I don't know if she expects to receive a gift. But as we will all be together, at her house, not mine, when they are opened, I'm not sure I could not give her anything. I don't know what the reaction would be, and it's certainly not something I'd want to get into at that point in time. Don't know if I've said before but I do have a feeling that she thinks she's entitled to the same as whatever we give our son. I'm sure it's apparent that there is "history" not just the gift thing. But that's another story or thread!!

Some people are ungrateful and graceless. But don't do anything to make a rift please. Your son will side with his wife. You will be the loser. Play the long game.

dewy5

If your DIL is not interested in any kind of family relationship (your original post), is she really expecting a gift? Why would she?

She can hardly be offended if you exclude her, after all, isn't that what she wants?

I think we just have to go along with the people our kids choose. My mum used to say if u don't accept them u lose them (your kids). And don't forget we can never walk in others shoes - impossible to know where they are coming from. We r grateful our daughter has a man who loves her but wish our son had a special lady to love him after we r gone.

I have in the past given a token amount to dil and a larger amount to ds, but dil was of the opinion that she was entitled to say what the cash was used for, ie, to benefit HER!! It's my opinion that, he is my son, I am his mother, and if I wish to give him anything, she has no say, unless he agrees. I may be totally wrong feeling this way, but I would be unhappy to give joint money.

When one of my son in laws gave me my present back (they were off on holiday and I had bought some beige cargo shorts and a white t shirt from a modern sports chain ) as he said he wouldn't wear them, I was somewhat hurt and wished he'd just thanked me kept them and given them away without my knowing .... anyway the following year he got a charity card that paid for a number of trees to be planted that was some years ago and after that I decided on joint money for them and my daughter can do what she wants with it she can spend it all on herself ,all on him jointly ,or on the house, not down to me after the card is posted

Brilliant idea!!

I suggest you donate to charity on her behalf....give her the receipt.

Teddy123

No 'backlash' here. I totally agree with everything you say!

I managed to avoid the issue of buying a present for my sons partner (who estranged herself from DH and me 18 months ago) by buying a joint present which is something they can both enjoy.

My son always thanks us profusely for presents so that's sufficient for us. She can go and ...** . We aren't bothered any longer as have put up with the crap her issues for too long.

to all those who have sons who are married to a bitch unpleasant woman.

As my sister says "love 'em to death!"

I give money to my three children and tell them that what I give is for them to divide up as they see fit, half and half or all on the house or a joint use like theatre tickets etc etc, the card goes to them both and the children have their money or presents separately That way if the son or daughters wanted to keep it all for themselves it's on their head not mine