Should we continue to send Birthday cards?

Poly580, your situation is far from isolated. I run a group for estranged parents and have researched the topic for over 5 years. Sadly your story, good parents being cut off by their adult children over money and other things is so common that it's an epidemic.
IT'S NOT YOU.

Please stand your ground and start taking care of you and your husband. I can't say there will be a happy ending. Neither can I advise on the sending of cards. All I can do is reassure you that you are one of many, many parents being treated in the same shoddy way.
Don't blame yourselves and don't listen to Norah. Her three daughters have all cut their MILS off so I'm sure you get my point that it's rife.

Isn't it amazing how many threads there are about being 'cut out' and that's just on GN, there are many many more elsewhere It's the trend now-a-days obviously

Poly your s.i.l sounds as delightful as mine, I was told to F* OFF" too, no reason!

Very well said Smileless

Load of o`le baloney again Norah

It sounds like your DD might be under the control of a violent man. It's not unheard of to appear to be a totally in control woman on the surface, hold down a good job etc. whilst being totally controlled by someone else. I was like that.

I would continue to send the cards and the occasional text that just says 'Hi xxx' so she knows you are still thinking about her.

OMG, Poly, it sounds as if sil is a very controlling man! Hopefully, he only smashes cabinets, not people, but still I can see where dd might be afraid to go against him. That might explain why she doesn't answer your texts, etc.

The occasional text from you or card for the gc may be reassuring to her then, IDK. Or it might make trouble for her if he finds out about it. Again, I really don't know. You may just need to trust your instincts on this one.

I see you like the 2 card idea. I hope it works out for you. But really, I hope dd comes around and the estrangement ends, and sooner rather than later.

Thank you everyone. I am so glad I stumbled across this site. It helps to hear from people who have experienced similar prodblems with their families. I have a memory box but never thought of buying two cards ( one for the post and one for the box) great idea. Enjoy the rest of your week everyone x

How about making a memory box for your grandchildren , to be given to them when they are adults. It is hard for those of us who grew up in a different era ,who didn't expect anything from our parents & stood on our own two feet & went without the latest gadgets until we could afford them. (And were grateful for any help we did get) In our attempt to give them a better start in life we seem to have reared a generation of selfish me me me I want it now adults!

Oh Poly I'm so sorry for your situation; don't regret posting. It's good to get things of your chest and it really does help knowing that you're not alone.

It's surprising how many similarities there are in many stories of estrangement. Money for example. Our ES and his wife live in a house they could never had owned without the financial support they received from us and my brother. They now want nothing to do with us but they're quite happy to continue to benefit from our generosity.

Perhaps you could just send cards to your GC, that's what we do and we buy 2 each time so that one goes in their memory box then at least one day they'll know we were sending them, even though they never received them.

Sadly, when it comes to estrangement Starlady you're damned if you do and damned if you don't, so yes you're right, do what feels right for you.

No cards from your AC on birthdays, mothers day and fathers day is what being cut out is all about. Ignored text messages and emails; the silence is deafening and the heart ache indescribable.

Oh dear ladies I am sorry I posted now. It's so hard to comment on situations when you don't know all the facts, but I really appreciate your thoughts, so thank you.
When DD was pregnant they refurbed the whole house, leaving the kitchen until last. They also purchased two new cars. Every Sunday I would cook dinner and the conversation would switch to the kitchen and its cost several times and it became obvious that they wanted us to fund it. Each time we visited there would be a cupboard door missing or a glass door smashed. Sil had done this with temper. Our DD told us this. It did not want us to say anything. One Sunday sil came right out and said when are you going to downsize and give us some cash. DD was horrified. That was the start of the problems. DD tried to defend him and we argued.
Our DS took all their presents at Christmas and was threatened with being punched, thrown off the door step and told to tell us to F off. Sil Said it was hypocrisy. He never had a problem with hypocrisy a couple of weeks before in taking the money for a Joolz Pram, asking for a Moses basket or a feeding seat. So, we haven't been told no cards or contact, but how would we be allowed contact if we can't give presents? She never answers my text or acknowledges my cards so contact is impossible.

Well yes, your D's relationship with you will differ to the one they have with their m's.i.l. but where it exists, harassment is harassment regardless of where it comes from, mother or m.i.l.

As for attempting to never to do anything to cause any waves 'bad things happen when good men do nothing'.

Smileless, I agree that gps sending cards to the little ones is not harassment even if the ac and cil think it is. BuT if Poly's ds and dil think it is, those cards might harden their attitude towards her and dh. And so what? - except that they are only one year into the estrangement. From what Iv seen here that's early days, the rift could still be repaired. So why risk making it worse?

That's only, of course, if ds and dil said "no contact" or have indicated in any way that they find any contact "harassment." If not, then, imo, Poly and dh need to do what's most comfortable for them.

If they were co for several years, then I would say, what difference? do what you like. But they're not - yet.

Again, just my thoughts.

It seems natural to assume that my daughters have mils, and yes they have a different relationship with me than any other.

End of signifies (to me) that I really can't say much more, not my circus and certainly not my monkeys in play here. I only have my opinions, which you don't like for whatever reason. And your opinions differ. I can't hope to convince you, thus back to the end.

So, to answer the OP, I'd search my memory for any indication that cards or other communication was unwelcome. Attempt to never do anything to cause any waves. My opinion.

What was or was not said is irrelevant norah. Harsh words and verbal disagreements do not justify cutting parents out of ones life and depriving GP's of their GC and children of their GP's.

Going against an unreasonable request that stems from bitterness and resentment is not harassment. You may not see a sense of entitlement in a post that states that contact was severed when parents refused to pay for a new kitchen but I do.

I'm curious as to why you said that myself and your daughters "define harassment (from their mil) differently, going against a direct request is harassment". What difference does it make if it's the mother or m.i.l. or is it one rule for mothers and another for m's.i.l.? Why do you keep saying "end of"? Is that supposed to bring this discussion to an end?

Starlady, just a thought from me. An AC cuts their parents out of theirs and their children's lives because, as it appears to be the case for OP, the bank of mum and dad closes its doors.

The AC doesn't want to receive cards, their choice and they also don't want their children to be sent cards from their GP's, not the child's choice. Taking into account the unjustified behaviour of the AC for CO their parents in the first place, can we realistically give any credence to their view that GP's sending cards to their GC constitutes harassment? I have no doubt whatsoever that if our ES and his wife could legally have a case of harassment against us for sending our GC cards they'd act on it. They haven't, so I can only assume it is not a case of harassment on our part.

The little mites wont get them anyway, they'll be put straight into the bin, but we feel better by doing the only small thing we can do.

Smileless2012 I don't know what was said, nor do you, I assume. So, I can't judge is the CO was unfair or not. I don't see a sense of entitlement anywhere in this post. And, yes, you and my daughters define harassment (from their MIL) differently, going against a direct request is harassment. End of.

When you text your daughter does she ever reply? I can only say what i think i would do if i were in your position. I would continue to send a birthday and Christmas card, telling your daughter that you hope she has a lovely day and you will be thinking of her. If she has ever responded to your text messages, continue to send a short message to her, perhaps 3 or 4 times a year.

No Norah, you didn't justify Poly's D's and s.i.l's. reaction to the decision not to pay for the kitchen, but by suggesting she search her memory "for what was said about" it, you imply that something she said could in some way be responsible for being treated so unfairly. I stand by my post, that the sense of entitlement some AC have, doesn't justify their cruel decision to cut their parents out of their lives.

You didn't "merely point out that if one is asked not to send cards, one wouldn't" you said to do so is harassment. Taking on board your daughters view of harassment and taking the decision to do as directed, does not mean that a GP sending cards to GC even if they've been asked not too, constitutes harassment by the GP.

Maybe I spoke too hastily. Norah has a point, imo. if you haven't been asked not to make any contact, Poly, then it's a toss up, I agree - send them or not, whatever feels best to you. But if you have been asked not to, then I would say "don't."

But, of course, as I said, I don't have the experience and Smileless does. So maybe I'm wrong. Just my thoughts.

Also think Norah has a point about going by what her dds see as "harassment." If one's eac/ecil think that continuing to send cards or texts or whatever is harassment, then that's how they will look at it whether or not one agrees. But an ep might not know what their eac/ecil think about this unless they've told them or said "no contact." So I guess it goes back to whether or not your ed or esil said this, Poly.

Smileless2012 I don't believe I justified the DS action. I merely pointed out that if one is asked to not send cards, one wouldn't. I do know what my daughters view as harassment, I'd do as directed. End of.

Even if harsh words were said about the kitchen fitting by Poly and her DH, that isn't reason to cut them out of their D's and GC's lives Norah.

What type of society are we living in when years of love, care and support are thrown away because an AC can't get their own way?

We've been estranged from our son for 4.5 years, have never sent him a card since he cut us out but always send cards to our GC at Christmas and their birthdays. We've never been asked not to send them cards but would continue to do so even if we were. Sending cards to your GC isn't harassment; it's the only small thing that some GP's are able to do.

Search your mrmory for what was said about the kitchen fitting. If you were not told to never contact then send cards. If you were told no contact ever, then don't as that is then harassment.

So sorry this happened to you, Poly! What a shock it must have been after having such a loving relationship with dd! My heart goes out to you.

I suppose it was a shock to her and sil, too, when you "shut the bank of mum and dad." But, imo, they should have realized that you couldn't finance their lives forever and that it was time to stand on their own 2 feet, period.

It sounds as if it was mostly sil who was upset. So dd may simply have decided to stand by him, as spouses often do. I'm sorry this has led to your being estranged for so long from her and your gs. Frankly, I don't understand why she couldn't have continued to defend him without cutting you and dh out so completely.

Perhaps there were some harsh words exchanged when all this first happened? Some angry remarks and insults that are hard to take back? Perhaps that's why she's taking sil's side in such an extreme way?

Anyway, I don't think you should continue to send cards. They probably don't get to gs and may even be tossed, sad to say. Also, since dd and sil have chosen to go nc (no contact), the cards may just antagonize them further, which could prolong the estrangement. I much prefer ninathenana's idea.

Same with the texts. Unless she replies (it sounds like she doesn't), then, imo, they need to stop. Though they are loving and caring, they may actually be making things worse.

And I wouldn't worry about letting dd know the door is always open. You have already told her that. If you feel more comfortable, maybe send her one more text saying that and adding that you won't be contacting her anymore since she doesn't seem to want it. She may not even read it, but it might make you feel better about ending all contact for now, until she's ready to walk through that open door.

(((Hugs)))

ninathenanaI'm so sorry about your situation with your GC. It's heart breaking I know. Our eldest was 5 in January, we've never seen him on any of his birthdays as he was just 8 months old the last time we had contact.

For some reason his 5th birthday really hit me hard. Maybe because he's started school now, has reached his first little life's milestone and I realised how much we've missed out that can never be given back.

PS The cards would be binned by their father anyway.