I despair!

Definitely a trip to the doctors perhaps under the ruse of an "annual check up". Is he a bit overweight? This might be type 2 diabetes.
Depression on leaving work also a possibility, am glad my husband is still working at 74 as I know he would find it difficult at home.
You sound very caring to me. Perhaps cut back his carbs a bit and take him for 30 mins walk each day. Say you need his company.
All best wishes. It is not easy.

Oh Madmeg and Saggi I empathise. My DP is much younger and suffering from depression and is already an old man. I have an active social life and can probably afford to leave but can't as doctor says he is supposed high risk of suicide. He has never displayed suicidal tendencies but I think is in a high risk age group.

I think that a visit to the GP might be helpful. There appears to be a marked change in your husband. Depression or dementia can be an issue at this age and stage but only his GP can say if there is a problem or not. I do not wish to alarm you, there could be many underlying issues for this change, or there may be absolutely nothing wrong. Won't do any harm to get a hood chevk up either way.

Just picked up of your 'rant' Madmeg! Get it off your chest girl. You and me could be married to twin brothers!! And you and me could BE twins . I'm 65 my husband is 71. He had a very very slight stroke when he was 50. HE decided he wasn't going to 'move' or 'work' ever again.He is totally petrified of any illness. He has sat in an armchair for 21 years watching t.v while I double my hours at work to make sure we kept a roof over our heads.I finially stopped work at 64, I was in a heavy job and my 'real' arthritis couldn't take the strain. I have it in my hands my hip and my back has three prolapsed discs. I now have a prolapse uterus/bladder and am waiting for repair job on it. When I told him he covered his ears until I stopped talking. He wouldn't read the paperwork the doc had given me on 'do's and donts)' as in no bending no lifting nor digging the garden....!!! joke!! In my house if I don't do it it don't get done. He turns on the tele at 7.30 (very loud) he says he's deaf but can hear a pound coin drop three miles away! It's so he can't hear my comments on him ever getting a life!! I Spring ...yes Spring outa bed every morning at 5.30 as this was my usual getting up for work time...and cycle to pool for my 50 lengths.Come home to housework ( no more than 1 hour a day. It's not worth it ladies)! Then I'm expected to watch TVs all day. I don't! I dcorate ..garden...pick grandkids up from school three times week , cook for them do a little housework for my DD/SIL and try to enjoy my time without him. He won't even walk up the street with me.We haven't had coffee/ lunch out in twenty years!! Im not REALLY married in any sense, just his housekeeper...unpaid at that. I can't afford to leave this awful life as I only have a state pension. I have a good friend who I can rant to but I don't abuse her good nature by doing it too often. So sorry Gransnet you gotta listen. But Madmeg if you are better positioned financially than me ....Run, run, run. Doesn't matter what people say about you doing it , just GO...before like me you get 'locked-in" to your own awful nightmare! GO NOW !!

BlueBelle,we don't make appointments for each other. Whilst I was in the garden this morning he made the appointment, which is with the nurse, not the doctor. If the blood test is normal there will be no appointment with the doctor. It is only a cholesterol test.

I don't know what evidence you have for saying that you can ask for a phone consultation at "most surgeries now" - we used to be able to but due to cut-backs they are no longer available. You can ask the doctor on triage duty for one hour a day to ring you regarding an urgent matter, but that is all. I also don't know how you can say "all doctors seem to regularly do a simple dementia test" - I assume you mean a MMSE test - nowadays. Both of us have seen our GPs several times a year in the past 3 years and neither of us has ever been given such a test.

Yes, I could make an appointment for myself and tell the GP about my worries, but that still doesn't get my husband to see the GP. I have, in the past, written to my husband's GP regarding my concerns about his mobility, knowing that he had made an appointment regarding that, but the GP appeared not to have read it. In any case, there are now so many locum and part-time doctors at our surgery that we rarely see the same one twice. Yes, my letter would be in his records, but doctors don't read them before a consultation unless the patient points it out - and my husband wouldn't be aware that I had written, would he?

Of course I don't want it to be a health problem. Why would I? I am not so stupid that I would ignore the matter if I really thought it was a health problem that could be treated, but at the moment I am not at all sure, hence my thought to wait and see if further symptoms develop.

Furthermore, this marriage without love has "worked" for 30 years with more success that many others. We aren't all lucky enough to be in love or to be loved for life, especially now that we are all living longer, but that doesn't mean we abandon a long relationship when it seems that our other half might be ill, or even, as I believe in my case, simply disinterested in anything - though there are probably more grounds for abandoning in that case. We went off on my pre-arranged trip on the train/tram/steamtrain with visit to the Transport Museum today and we both enjoyed it, and the company of others on the same trip. There are moments of pleasure even in a loveless marriage.

If I were to show him the conversations I have had on here he would blow a fuse and call everyone scaremongers and worse, and accuse me of engineering support for my supposition that he is ill. In fact, in my original post, I never mentioned the possibility of illness of any kind. I simply wanted to know how to chivvy up my husband into being more pro-active or at least making the effort to show some enthusiasm for life. It was everyone else who suggested a medical cause, and as I said, I am bearing all those suggestions in mind, and thanked people for them.

So again, I don't know why you are telling me that there was "no real point" in my original post. I have heard a lot of views and found many of them potentially relevant. So if there was no point in that, then what is Gransnet for? Is it a forum for other people to foist their views on someone in difficulty and asking for help? I think not, and most people posting here have been constructive in their advice.

But you now have the ideal situation he needs an appointment for a blood test so speak to the doctor BEFORE you make the appointment you can ask for a phone consultation at most surgeries now or make yourself a doctors appointment and go through it with him/her and they will then be aware to do more than the blood test needed. All doctors seem to regularly do a simple dementia test nowadays without there being any need My friend went recently for an osteoporosis check up and at 81 she has a mind and wit equal to a young person but the doctor at the end of the consultation did an automatic memory test just as part of the check up ( she passed with flying colours)
You don't need to make 'another check up appointment' you just need to speak to the doctor BEFORE the check ups. Ask yourself why you are so reluctant to think it could be medical ? Because you really don't want it to be a health problem do you? could that be because facing up to years of care for someone you don't love is huge or do you want it to be 'his fault' or maybe a combination of both
A marriage without love is never going to work and it sounds as if 30 years of total resentment has built up to a crescendo I can only add to what others have said if AFTER the medical side has been explored and if he is shown to have no mental health problems use your retirement to get out and about and do all the things you want to do with friends or groups

If you just 'wait and see' after all the advice you have been given then there was no real point in your original post apart from getting it off your chest which will help temporarily but not be the answer

Thanks everyone. No, devongirl, there is no intimacy of any kind and hasn't been for 30 years. We went to Relate at that time but he walked out on the third session because he said the counsellor was insinuating that there was "something wrong with him". She wasn't, she was suggesting changes that he might like to make. A couple of years after that he moved into the spare room cos he said I snored (I do, but so does he, and lots of couples snore happily together), and now has his own room, kitted out as he wanted it, like a teenager's room. A widowed female friend recently said to me, after she had had a hug from another female friend that I wouldn't need hugs from other people cos my husband would give me one if I needed it. That would never happen, and never really did. Physical contact seemed to only interest him if sex was the likely outcome.

But this is a different issue. I have long since resigned myself to a loveless relationship and we have discussed in the past what this means for us, which is that we still share most of our lives together and just get on with it. He says he still loves me, but there has not been any evidence of that in 30+ years. It might not be ideal, but the one extra-marital relationship I had 15 years ago terminated when the man died of bowel cancer. I've done a lot of things out of duty, including baking a cake for that man's marriage, in hospital, to his then partner (whom he married "out of duty", and putting a smile on my face. I've no intention of going through that again!

There ARE things we both like to do but it is always me who initiates them, and I even initiate things for him, and try to be enthusiastic about them. Most times I am more enthusiastic than he is.

Coincidentally, his repeat prescription arrived today with a message "Make an appointment for a blood test". I have no idea what blood test that might be. In answer to a few people, we both have regular checkups as a result of previous medical episodes, so the idea of suggesting another check up isn't on.

I think I just have to see what develops in the future, and take it from there.

Meg

jimmy, might he be interested in train holidays (to Europe)?

I know how you feel. Don't post much here but can sympathise so much with you.

Though hubby is fit considering he had bowel cancer in 2008 and at 67 is evening cleaning he seems to waste his life.

I've just received my passport - the first since 1998. He applied for his. It arrived today and he signed it in the wrong place. Never read the instructions on where to sign it. Rang Passport Office and they said its valid but Border Control might refuse it so its got to be the process all over again. We might not even go anywhere because he won't fly and isn't interested in coach trips. I may end up going with a cousin who has invited me with their family.

It might inspire him to get his finger out if we get on with things leaving them behind. They may not be inspired but we can at least say we tried and we can get on with our lives.

Sorry madmeg, haven't had time to read all the thread and this may have been brought up before, but is there any intimacy between you now, emotional if not physical?

Madmeg...it's me again. Your husband probably won't agree but I would strongly recommend you see a counselor or therapist on your own so you can learn how to cope and possibly get him the help he needs! Truth is it's your husband who can benefit the most from some sound professional help. His lack of initiative and motivation sound like chronic depression to me and that's not something that goes away on it's own! After forty five years, you both deserve to be happy!

It definitely sounds like depression or a neurological cause as his behaviour seems such a reversal of his former personality/lifestyle. My DH at nearly 75 is still active, albeit a bit slower, goes to the gym regularly and has many projects on the go, despite having a few health issues; he still does work in the house and garden even if he doesn't particularly enjoy it, which makes me think that there must be a physical/mental cause for your husband's lack of energy or interest. Perhaps you could get the GP to do a few blood tests when he next goes for his 'flu jab or other health check?

If there really is nothing wrong, then I agree with others - try to get out and about yourself and develop a life outside the home. If he is that diffident then it shouldn't cause too many problems.

I am married to a man with PD. A lot of what you are describing fits the diagnosis. He is a retired doctor so there was no need to see the doc - he knew what he had.

I think that all you can do is develop your own life enjoyments and leave him to his own devices; not in a cruel way, but just so he can live as he wants to. It is clear that your desire for activity is way out of synch with his and, at this stage, there is no reason why you should not just get on with your life.

When/if he shows clear unignorable symptoms of illness then it will be time to think again - in the meantime just get on and enjoy yourself and stop trying to get him to behave as you would like him to - it is a lost cause - I am sure he thinks you should slow down a bit and stop wanting to be out and about and doing! I do so recognise this situation!

I am sure it must feel deeply exasperating to you that you have stuck with a marriage that has been lacking any spark; and now he is getting more reclusive and you are becoming more aware that the clock is ticking. Just get out and enjoy yourself - you cannot change him; whether the cause of his behaviour is medical or not. Time enough for being a carer when he is truly unwell rather than just no kind of true partner.

I think you should stop thinking about duty. Otherwise you will just seem a bit of a martyr. You could discuss splitting up again. Tell them you can't stand his behaviour and his refusal to do anything about it - that might spur him into agreeing to seek help, if not you could separate downsize and forge your own life.

Hi madmeg,
Thankfully I have never found myself in your position, but yes; even duty with love can be a difficult and soul destroying thing. I say that through experience of looking after my mum.
Are you and your husband due any kind of health check type appointment, or could you manufacture one by phoning the doctors to arrange to both be seen? All else I can suggest is to start making a little life for yourself, which won't mean abandoning your husband in any way. His hobby is doing nothing in particular, so it seems, but that doesn't mean you also have to wither away.
Sending you best wishes, and hoping you can sort out a way forward out of the gloom.

Go to the doctor for yourself Madmeg and then I will add only one thing

Duty without any love will destroy you both

Oh heck. Thank you all. And Bluebelle for your further explanation of your comments. The issues with my marriage are complex, and don't directly relate to my post. I raised the possibility of us splitting up about 8 years ago, and we agreed to maintain the status quo, with a few changes on both sides, that we have, in fact, stuck to. So no, I don't love him, but after 45 years I am not sure what love is. He says he loves me but there is no evidence of that other than that he hasn't left me, and we rub along okay in many ways. Having made that agreement to stay together then yes, it is my duty to help him if he is sick. I would feel the same even if we separated.

I am a bit big on duty. My father, on his deathbed, asked me to look after my mum for him. I promised. I loved my father to bits, but my mother was just, well, his wife. She wasn't a mother in my understanding of the role, she fed me, clothed me, and did little else. I was the ten-year-old who arrived at school one day and found blood in my knickers. I thought I was terminally ill. I ran all the way home and when I told my mum she said "Oh, it will be a period. Did you not know about them?". Er, no, why would I if nobody had told me? She provided a fat sanitary towel and an elastic belt to fit an adult, and left me to it. When my boyfriend of a year ditched me (I was 18) she said "these things happen, get over it". No warmth, no hugs. I cried alone in my bedroom. She was no mother to me. But my dad asked me to look after her, and I bloody well did. She got dementia. I spent two years helping her to live in her community. I made sure she got a lift to Church every Sunday, and to the social club. I took her shopping in Tesco every week, and she came to me for Sunday dinner. It was my duty. And when she was found wandering the streets at 3 a.m waiting for a non-existent bus, she was sectioned. I found her a pleasant care home, she was happy there. It cost me all of my intended inheritance and more, but the point was that she was cared for and happy, as my dad would have wanted.

So yes, I am a believer in doing your duty.

I really don't know what to do next. I did write to his GP a couple of years ago, regarding his posture etc but she or he didn't seem to take notice of it. There are no home visits, and he wouldn't qualify even if there were - there is, to the outside world, nothing wrong with him.

If he were to read this thread and all its comments he would be absolutely livid. He would brand you all as scaremongers and idiots, with your own agendas, i.e. to label him as "ill". He would be furious, because to him he is not ill, there is no problem. The only problem is all these people who try to tell him he is ill. He would shout "LEAVE ME ALONE, YOU ARE ALL CRANKS, HELL BENT ON MAKING ME FEEL ILL, AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH ME". The fact that I have resorted to a website to ask for help would merely tell him that I was also "Out to get him" He wouldn't see that it meant I was getting desperate. Of course, you are all, I assume, women, and that is possibly an issue. He has no men friends. The ones he had when I met him 45 years ago have mostly disappeared. I have kept in touch with a couple of them myself, and we exchange Christmas cards and get the occasional invite to a significant birthday, but he rarely wants to go. The walking group he is in has only one man (there were two till December, he sadly passed away), and he has only flippant conversation with anyone. The ladies all think he is a lovely man, if a bit boring.

I still don't think he has dementia, despite the number of people on here who have suggested it. He may well have a more physical problem, but he denies that he needs to see a doctor, telling me to stop pressurising him. He is not ill, and that is that, in his words.

Lewlew, he is not feeling poorly.

I still despair! But thanks everyone for listening at least.

Meg

singingnutty I was going to post the same thing, my husband was diagnosed years ago but some of the symptoms sound familiar.

Might consider that there are all kinds of non-respiratory complications for long-lifetime smokers. An unsteady gait may be a circulatory problem that is causing him distress.

Hope you can convince him to get a physical. He must be feeling poorly, so an MOT could give answers to both of you. He likely fears the doctor because he will be told to quit smoking. A good GP will advise that, but surely can help with helpfully and non-judgmentally explaining some of his problems. Knowledge alone can help give back control to your lives!

Madmeg Making a bad situation worse, your description of his walking, immediately made we think Parkinson's disease. My FiL had it and would not see a doctor, until he collapsed in the street, more or less outside the doctor's surgery.

But the many posters who say that as things are the first person you should be looking after is yourself are right. You must see a doctor yourself. Tell him everything, all your health worries and the problems with your husband's behaviour, especially those that sound like symptoms of an underlying illness - the foot dragging, mood changes, apathy that are bringing you close to breaking point.

Madmeg - my heart does go out to you. As I said before, I really do think it sounds like your husband might have early onset Parkinsons or dementia - maybe vascular dementia. My father had this, and it can take a while to recognise. With the slumping - maybe mini-strokes (which are indicative of vascular dementia). I am so sorry that you have not had a happy marriage and it sounds like you are not getting support. It might be worth contacting social services and seeing if there is anything they can do. If your husband won't go to the doctor's, maybe you could go and explain what you've said to us.... They might do a home visit and be able to assess him. It really seems to me that your depression is rearing it's head again, and even if you can't help him, you might be able to get some help for you. I really hope you can find some support....

Madmeg you sound so very angry, I believe you are grieving the loss of the man you loved. We go through all these emotions when grieving, but in the end we have to accept and then move on. At this stage your husband needs to see a doctor to get a referral to be assessed for Dementia. Depression can often be mistaken for dementia, so they will rule everything out but if the result comes back with a Dementia Diagnoses regardless of which one, both your lives are going to change dramatically. You will need to learn to live in his world and to learn that in that world everything he says is right. It is one of the hardest lessons to learn, but it is up to you to do so, because he cannot change nor understand however much you argue or explain. It is not that he WILL not he simply CAN'T.
My thoughts are with you and I wish both of you a happier life together. YOU CAN LIVE WELL WITH DEMENTIA WITH SUPPORT.

BlueBell you have said everything I wanted to say. I work with Dementia daily and feel so very sorry for this man who sounds like he is really struggling without knowing why. He needs an assessment and lots of support.

Madmen, my heRt goes out to you. You are seemingly battling alone at the moment. I know you cannot drag a grown man to the doctors, they just dig their heels in. I donwobdr,M however, might it be an idea to visit your doctor, explain your concerns, perhaps they could visit your home? This might not be possible, in these days if cuts, but you need help too. For a start I would give up on the leaflet delivering, say your bad isn't up to it to your husband. You have to have a life with dome sunshine in. Cannot you get a handyman to help with those jobs you both find hard, could you do a class or activity on your own, get out of the house. If your husband objects to help around the place, just say your are not getting any younger and finding it too much. It does sound very much like depression or something medical that needs addressing, but without cooperation from him, you are trying to manage a grown man, who doesn't want to do anything, a home and what sounds like a biggarden single handily, you love the man he was, but things and age change a lot of people, think about what you want. It would be easy to feel sorry for your husband, this isn't what he would have wanted either. However, he wants to be this way for whatever reason, which I am sure isn't to make your life hard. Good luck.?