Support for all who are living with estrangement (2)

Sorry for the typo Smileless

SnilelessDoes your brother speak to your ES?

Dolcellatte a Freudian slip perhaps 'mother thread'.

We initially invested money into our ES's first house, before he met her, and when he became engaged and they wanted to move we agreed for the amount to be transferred into their new house purchase.

My brother did the same and is also CO of their lives. It was gratefully received at the time and only when we were CO was it thrown back in our faces with the accusation that we were seeking to control them.

When ES said that to Mr. S. he told our ES that that was the issue, everything that we'd done out of love and our desire to be supportive had been turned on its head and made into something bad.

Obviously not that bad though as they continue to live in the house and have made no effort to repay our or my brothers investment.

Just noticed typo above - should read 'another thread' not 'a mother thread', but apt in a way!

Smileless, I think I read on one of your posts that your estrangement from your DS arose from a property transaction. It sounds as though, like us, you were trying to help your DS, but it went sour somewhere along the way.

The thing is that I already knew, from personal and professional experience, that money and property can often lead to problems, so I am kicking myself for ever having said I would make the loan in the first place. In my defence, all I can say is that I agreed to the loan (which I wouldn't have wanted to be repaid, but wanted it acknowledged by a Deed of Trust, to 'ring fence' it in case of break up etc, and so it would come back to the family in worst case scenario) out of love for my DD. I also withdrew out of love.

We live and learn and I am just taking it one step at a time. I would just say to other GNs to be very cautious when it comes to your DC and money/property, especially where there is a third party involved.

Thanks Starlady. The estrangement was because of her boyfriend, whom she lives with. I think he is controlling, and am concerned that DD seems to have become isolated from her family and friends. I did have a mother thread running which explains a bit more of the background, and was grateful for the support, both on here and on Mumsnet (different user name).

I don't think she wants to be cut off from us, but the longer it goes on the harder it is. She has had no contact with her sister for two years and they used to be so close. She and BF are together 24/7 and DD says they come as a package. She won't see us without him and he won't see us until we 'treat her right' ie give her money - I was going to lend her money to buy a house with him but pulled out as I was worried that he was controlling and I didn't want her to be tied to him, which I thought the house purchase would do. It was a 'lose, lose' situation. DD wasn't too bothered at first, but now seems to have adopted his view that we 'owe' them in some way.

DH and I also made it clear that we didn't approve of their living off benefits when they are both highly educated and well qualified to get jobs.

Anyway,one bright spot is that her boyfriend has been accepted on a PGCE course, mainly for the generous free bursary (about £26k, I believe, without any obligation to teach afterwards). He is apparently going to 'give it a go', and I hope he is successful . Perhaps it will be the making of him, although I think it will be difficult for him to adjust to a full on and demanding course/ job after three years of not working at all. In any event, it is a positive change, so fingers crossed!

Lovely to hear from you Starlady. Yes, we're rushed off our feet by our new puppy. What have you been up too lately?

Dolecelatte, if you think, as you say, that some of your problem with dd "must be (your) fault," perhaps you know what sets her off and can avoid it in the future? Then again, imo, so often we parents blame ourselves, no matter what happens. As pps have said to KN, it may just be that something else is going on in her life that she doesn't feel she can share with family right now. Anyhow, I hope the renewed communication continues.

Knittingnancy, I, too, am sorry for what you are facing. Like pps, I'm also wondering if this estrangement is really about a chair. It feels as if there must be something else going on here. Is it possible you broke a rule dd has for her kids and that's what this was about? Did it happen before, so that maybe this was a "last straw?" Since it sounds as if the event was in your house, I think you should have been able to make your own decision, but, maybe, dd doesn't see it that way?

Regardless, since she said, sadly, that you have "lost" her, I don't agree with continuing to send her cards, etc. I'm afraid she'll just see them as you dismissing what she said. I do agree that you should continue to send them to the gc, except perhaps the one who sent you that "nasty" message. Your decision, of course, but I don't think she'll appreciate them.

Meanwhile, I'm sorry you're stuck indoors so much due to your disability. Is it possible to hire a health aid who can take you outdoors, sometimes, etc? I know you have dh, but he needs a break, too, sometimes, I'm sure. And an aid could increase the amount of time you got to get out and enjoy.

Hi ladies! Haven't been in for a while, so just catching up! Glad to hear that you saw your gc, crazy, that you're back in touch with dd, Dolcelatte, and about your new puppy, Smileless! But sorry to see still more pain in this thread, as ever.

Jammy, I'm a little late to the game where you're concerned. Idk if you're still reading this or not. But if you are, I'm deeply sorry for what you went through as a child and agree with pps that you are an extraordinary woman to have broken this pattern with your own children.

I think you got some very good advice here. Have you made a decision? If not, then I just want to add that I think you need to be clear in your mind and heart about why you feel this pull towards your mother at this time? Is it truly because you want one last chance to reconnect? Or that you're seeking some kind of closure? Or if you're honest with yourself, is it just that you know she's going to be in court with you and you don't want her going in with any animosity towards you? I'm NOT suggesting that you want to influence her. I don't get that impression of you. I just think maybe you're trying to protect yourself in some way. Or is it some kind of guilt because of her illness? As pps have said, you don't bear any guilt there. If anything, she does. She bears some of the responsibility for the abuse you suffered as a child. The fact that she verbally abused you, herself, when you were older tells me she doesn't really have a problem with abuse, not the way you or I do. Perhaps she was abused, herself, as a child and, unlike you, wasn't able to escape that pattern. Who knows? Maybe she was so damaged she wasn't able to be the mother you needed years ago. But even if so, she can't expect you to be the daughter she wants now.

I hope everyone is enjoying this glorious weather......my friend's husband has lung problems and he is struggling....he doesn't like this weather at all.
I've got grandma duties...picking up my teenager from the gym, yes gym, and he has GCSE exams tomorrow ?
Enjoy the sun ...let's forget our troubles for a while

Good to see your post Dolcelatte. It's good that you've had a birthday card from your D and it isn't "sort of progress" it is progress.

We've had nothing nice from our son for more than 5.5 years.

It will be OK for us all I'm certain either because our EAC will one day regret what they've done and get in touch or because we'll continue to move forward and find peace and happiness in our lives without them.

Rhinestone I'm sorry, I thought you were talking about your S, not your SS. I've been thinking about your poor friend and what she said about feeling that she was estranged from her son, even though they lived in the same house.

There's so much pain and suffering in this world isn't there and the one person you never expect to be dishing it out to you is your own child.

Maybe I mispoke but it’s my estranged stepson that I told my friend to say hello to. He has the two little boys.
My son is not talking to us after he fought with my daughter calling her a * y mother.
DolcelatteWelcome back. I’m glad you received that card from your daughter. Love may conquer all but you have to have love not hate in your heart first. Unfortunately many of our children have anger issues they can’t get past.

I haven't posted for a while and only the once, although I had a separate thread about my currently rocky relationship with my adult daughter. I was very grateful for the advice and support.

Things are a bit better, she sent me a nice birthday card, signed by both of them, which is sort of progress. But I haven't seen her for over a year now, and she hasn't seen her sister for nearly two years.

I am trying to get on with my life, having recently retired there are so many changes, but I still fret about it all. I replay everything in my head and I think that some of this must be my fault. But I also feel angry too. And then I just want to turn back time and to have a different ending, although who knows what the ending will be?

I felt very close to her tonight. I know that she was thinking of me in that moment. It sounds silly, but I just know. I have had that feeling before and I was right. After a long silence, we cross texted each other at the very same second.

We all have to believe. Love conquers all. It will be ok, it must be, how can it not be? Courage to us all.

Rhinestone, that’s both shocking and sad for your friend to find her son dead and to be living in the same house too.
Wonder if your son will take stock of the situation and say hello.

Smileless, not only is your husband retiring, but, also parting with the family history too. Huge emotional event and not to be able to share that with all the family.( Don’t think they really understand the impact of this estrangement) So difficult...

Pleased you have plans on the horizon.

Lovely and warm here, and the sun is past the yardarm, drinks all round.
Here’s to all of us as we go onward with our heads held high.

Northernsoul I'm glad you enjoyed the wine.

Mr. S. plays indoor and outdoor bowls and we are going to join a new gym when he retires. We have plans. A holiday booked for the end of November and going to Aus. in January to spend some time with our DS.

We're closing our business which is rather stressful and sad for Mr. S. as it was established by his GGF in 1890. I do the accounts from home so haven't gone out to work for more than 6 years. I closed down my own shop just before our first GC was born; I was supposed to be having him for child care which of course never materialised.

My brother used to live near Chatsworth and we'd go there when we visited him. It's really beautiful isn't it, a feast for the eyes.

We're so lucky to have moved to where we are. We love being so close to the sea, we can walk down to the beach in less than 20 minutes.

There's a lot to look forward too but just now the void that our ES has left in our lives seems insurmountable and in my head, I'm desperately trying to think of things we can do to fill it.

That's terribly sad Rhinestone and I hope it makes your ES think about the choices he's made.

It has been hot and humidity where I live and I have had horrible headaches all week.*Smileless*It’s quite an adjustment when the DH retires. Mr R and myself retired at the same time and we squabbled for the first six months. Now I never see him as he is off doing his woodworking or some project. Are you retiring too or are you retired all ready?
Today I went to a funeral . My friend found her son passed away on Monday. He was an alcoholic , no job , and living in her basement. This woman has two other sons who live away but she hardly sees them. She found her husband dead also fifteen years ago in the same house. She has been through a lot. And yet her son that lived in the house would go days without talking to her. He never acknowledged her on Mother's Day. And in the same house. So we never know . Even though he lived with her she said she felt estranged.
I sat next to an old friend who works with my ESS. I told her to tell him I said hello.Can you imagine what he will think?

Oh Smileless! I do feel for you.

Earlier there was something that brought a tear to my eye.

We love gardening and like to have new plants and ideas which would have been shared with our daughter, who also gardens.(As well as the love of family life.)
Last year we went to the first RHS Chatsworth, she would have loved to hear all about it.

Retirement is mixed with lots of emotions and we’ve been tossed in a different direction from what we thought we were heading.

Wonder if your husband has any hobbies?
Men feel they need to fix the problem and go into their ‘Cave’ when they can’t...this problem can only be fixed by the AC, who remains silent.

Well I’ll reflect and acknowledge the sadness and then dust it off.

The garden needed the drop of rain and let it be sunny tomorrow for you and me.

We used to live near the sea and found it exhilarating to walk along the shore.

Thanks for the glass of wine it was delicious with my meal.

NSx

We are on the east coast, can see the sea from my kitchen window but it's cold and miserable here. Perhaps we should move to Wales.

Glad you've had some good weather crazy tbh I'm feeling rather low at the moment, don't know why so I could do with some.

Mr. S. is set to retire in a few months time and I guess it's made me think about how things should have been. Enjoying our GC with all the spare time we'll have on our hands.

Who'd have thought it, that we'd be entering the last phase of our lives without our much loved and once adored son and only GC.

Where are you Smileless? The weather here in Wales has been too good to be true.....never had so much sunshine in week xx

Wishing you all a good weekend. The weather this week has been really awful so we're hoping for someand a little warmth.

well it is Friday after all.

Dontaskmeit's doing things like for example going to a park that we've been avoiding due to our estrangements, that show how far we've come.

It is hard isn't it but often not as hard as we thought it was going to be.

Hope you enjoyed your Magnum.

Thanks crazy, Smileless and Rhinestone - it is a lot easier without looking at their dear little faces every time I walk into the hall, up the stairs, on the landing, in my bedroom, in the kitchen , in the sitting room and just about everywhere else in the house. We were so happy to actually have GC we had photo's galore! I wish I'd taken them down yonks ago as feel better without them around.

Have avoided going to the big park for a while as seeing the happy Dads with their kids makes me so sad thinking of my poor DS, and seeing happy Grandparents is almost as bad, but DH and I went last week and survived and have promised the dogs that we'll take them again tomorrow. Looking forward to a lovely ice cream while we're there. Or actually make mine a Magnum Yes, I love my grub, chips last post, ices this

Rhinestone

A bank holiday is a statutory holiday. Labour Day, Memorial Day, etc. would be bank holidays.

Rhinestone it must be a worry for you with your ES being homeless and as you say, being estranged from him makes it an even bigger worry as you don't know exactly what's going on.