Support for all who are living with estrangement (2)

Good morning from the states. I hope you all had a good bank holiday. I’m not sure what that is but any holiday is a good one I say.
DontaskmeI totally get what you did about the pictures. I took down my ES and ESS and his wife’s. I left the two boys ( GC) up but I too have a hard time looking at them and was wondering last week if I should take them down. It IS painful to look at them.
CrazyHI know what you mean about walking on eggshells. It horrible to feel that way but I’m glad you got to see your GC.
My DM Birthday was this week and my ES called her. She told us some things he said that didn’t seem correct like he’s living with his father. My DD questioned her father and he told us the opposite of what my DM said. So my husband texted my ES and he did respond back. That’s a good sign. But he sadly has no home and he is living with friends not his father.
A drifter at 40 is not what I ever thought my child would become. He had so much potential but sadly not enough motivation. I worry constantly about him and being estranged only worsens things.
As for our other estrangement of my stepson... I’ve given up on seeing those two boys of his. But one day they will know the truth. He gave his mother a birthday party and she was bragging about it on Instagram. It’s painful to see the pictures.

Northernsoul "but sadly her mind has been influenced in a cruel and twisted way"oh yes; absolutely.

DontaskmeI've never had photos up in the house and for that I'm grateful. We have so few of our eldest GS as he was just 8 months old the last time we saw him. We had only a few as we never saw that much of him.

We have none of his brother; never seen him properly so at least we were spared the pain of looking at them every day as you have, and the heart breaking decision of putting them away. I'm so sorry.

Funnily enough, I was looking for something for our DS a couple of months ago and came across some old school photo's of ES. It was totally unexpected as I thought all family photos were together in a couple of boxes where we'd packed them for our move.

It didn't upset me when I saw them, on the contrary, I didn't really feel anything; no sadness, regret or pain.

Maybe that's to be expected after more than 5 years; I don't know. I love him of course but even that feels different now. I love him but I'm not in love with him if that makes any sense. Sounds a little weird, but that's the only way I can explain it.

Jammy...meant to say "completely going against that part of yourself could end up hurting you more than being in a relationship even if it's not ever thing you'd hoped"

Jammy, I'm so sorry you are going through this. Its very hard because there's such a deep internal yearning to connect, love and be loved by our biological mother. Although my childhood was very different than yours, I understand having a mother who can at times be harmful mentaly and emotionally. How far away is your court proceedings ? It may be a good idea to wait until afterwards. Maybe explain to her in a letter that after that you'll have the energy to work on a closer relationship with her. The fact that she was in awe of you being so nurturing to your own kids (and was so honest about it!) shows me that she really didn't have it in her to be a good mom to you and that on some level feels she's been incapacitated in that way. It sounds to me like you do want to give her another chance, but of course don't want to sabotage yourself in the process (which is healthy ). You also sound like you are a compassionate person enough to think about her last years and health. Completely going against that part of yourself could end up hurting you as much as if you stayed NC, but of course you can't do it at the expense of your emotional/spiritual integrity.
The thing about true reconciliation is that it has to be a two way street. Both people have to care enough about the relationship to do the work, and they have to care about eachother's feelings. If you havent really explained to her your feelings about the past indepthly, I would write her a serious letter.
Talk about your pain in the most honest way possible in a non harsh way. Tell her you would like her to acknowledge your pain/empathize with you and that you need this from her. Maybe even ask her what her childhood was like and show compassion . Tell her the good things you see about her too. Then tell her the ways that she's been demeaning you as an adult and that you'll have to see a real effort on her part to change that.
I know, it's not fair that you have to be the "adult" right now. A mother doesn't naturally feel "only coldness" for her 4 year old (especially when that little girl is trying to dry her mother's tears) unless something is very damaged in her. You are more whole than she is and that is justice for you in a sense. If she doesn't want to work on the relationship at all and is completely stubborn she is sadly only interested in using you because of her vulnerability. But she may want to have another chance at loving you.
Best wishes

Crazy I bought this electric one 4 years ago so I hear what you say. I learnt years ago on a hand crank.

I am planning a new dress as first sewn thing...

That's great Sparkly .... I once bought a sewing machine, with the full intention of learning But failed miserably. So I gave the machine away to a friend. I hope you get on well with your lessons.
Keep us posted ....

Something nice.....I had a sewing lesson and more to come....felt excited as soon will at last know how to use an electric sewing machine and get sewing illness allowing for the first time in years.

Crazy how wonderful to see your DGC...

How very sad Dontaskme.....it seems so final. But if it hurts you to see those pictures, then that's what you must do.
Hope you enjoyed the chips.
Here are some for you ...

My "something positive" isn't really very positive but I needed to do it ....... at the weekend I took all the photos of our GC down. I just can't keep looking at them and getting upset every time I walk past them anymore.

Think I'll have chips for tea

Thank you ladies for the flowers, I’ll put them in a vase!

Both our children were brought up with love and laughter to respect one another and others.

One had tragedy thrust upon him and the other created tragedy.
She would have been disgusted and appalled at this behaviour, but sadly her mind has been influenced in a cruel and twisted way...so like many of us on this thread.

No one can extinguish the love we have shared and this will not be overcome by hatred.

Be kind to yourselves then you will be able to share that with others.

Looks as though the garden will get a drink today!

Northernsoula terrible tragedy for your family. Yes, she's a project bless her and now a much loved member of our little family.

How lovely crazy I'm so pleased that you got the chance to see your GC. I hope your next request is well received.

Yes, Smileless, I had a fairly nice Bank Holiday weekend, catching up with friends. I texted my 'hanging by a thread ' son and asked if I could go round to see the grandkids. I was shocked when d.i.l texted to say I could go over on bank holiday Monday for brunch. See, this is it....he always needs his wife's permission and then she texts me. So I did go over and had a lovely couple of hours with them....I say 'lovely' ... there were a couple of digs and son bringing up his childhood etc etc. I took it with a pinch of salt....main thing was to have time with the kids. The 3 year old painted my nails for me. She wanted me to stay, but unfortunately neither my son or d.i.l. heard it. They were in the kitchen...we were in the garden. I came away with a tear in my eye..don't when I'll see them again. I have to make a request in a few weeks and see .
Northernsoul, sorry about your grandson. How tragic

Pleased you had a good break away, Smileless.

2012 was a year for celebration in the family, only to turn out with more tears and hurt that we have ever known, except for the death of our grandson. But that was a tragedy that no one made.

Think you did a brave thing in moving away and it wasn’t taken lightly by you both.It has turned out very well.
We don’t know what is around the corner of life and sometimes we have to be brave and take that step however small or large in order to move forward.

Your little puppy is certainly a project, but you will be rewarded.

Did wonder if Knittingnancy is a knitter as a positive way would be to knit for premature babies at the Baby Unit in the area.They are always in need of little hats,mittens,tiny blankets.

The weather has brought an abundance of flowers to marvel at.After the awful cold weather it’s truly amazing the weather we have now.

Hope you all enjoyed the bank holiday weekend. We've been at our little holiday home since Saturday and are going home tomorrow.

It's been a nice break away and we were lucky with the weather. A bit difficult with the puppy's house training as being somewhere different disorientated her but she's been really good the last couple of days.

I felt the same way Northernsoul about not giving them the satisfaction of seeing how hurt I was, which eventually took its toll after 4 years of living just a few doors away from them.

You're right about doing something positive. Our 'doing something positive' was moving; a big thing to do but the best thing we could have done.

Knittingnancy, I do hope you are still reading on here and that you’re finding a little support from those of us who have and are in this sorry position.

From what I deduce your daughter must be well into middle age and with a 24 year old daughter too.
Not children yet behaving as such.

You and your husband came to your daughter’s aid leaving your home.

Had you left friends and other social activities?
You say you find it difficult to get out without the aid of a wheelchair and rely on your husband, has this been since your move?
I do know about the depression this sad situation brings about.

I cannot tell you how to heal the so called rift as you were not at odds with your daughter.
For what it’s worth I believe that Chair incident was blown up in order for your daughter ( partner) to use conveniently to cut you out.
What does your husband, her father, think?

Could it be you have become more needy as you’ve got older and she/partner sees this as a problem?
As you have given to her in every way, she sees little in way of returning the same.

I can only tell you what I found helpful in order not to keep going over and over the sorry event, is to do something positive.Do realise you have mobility problems but wonder if you can have a little project on such as a craft or get a little container and grow some plants of cheer.

It’s so cruel what has happened to us, but be blowed I’ll give them the satisfaction of seeing how hurt I am.
I have developed different strategies and made new friends.

Do post and let us know how you are.

Knittingnancy I am so sorry for your situation. What possesses our children to cause so much pain? If only they could see the heartache they cause.

crazy yes you did. I asked the OP if she knows what her other D and her son think of the rift.

Actually, it was me who suggested that one of KNs other children organise a family get together. I thought it a fairly good idea. Things seem to be easier in a group setting than a one to one. And after all they are family and they seem to get along well. She is only 'upset ' with KN. Well, maybe not a good idea after all.

That's a good point agnurse, no one wants to be piggy in the middle but I wasn't suggesting that KN's son and daughter attempt to manage her relationship with their sister, rather that they may be able to offer some valuable insight.

When one sibling refuses all and any contact with their parents, as you'll know from your own experience, it affects the rest of the family and it can be invaluable for the estranged parent to be able to talk to their other child(ren).

We no longer mention our ES to his brother; it's been so long now but in the beginning we did and he did with us. It helped all 3 of us for it not to be the elephant in the room.

From the outset we impressed on him the importance of not taking sides as we wanted to know that at least our ES had his brother in his life. Sadly, there isn't a great deal of communication between them but we find the little that they do have reassuring.

Knitting Nancy We all feel your pain and are sorry you have to suffer. I agree that it’s probably not just the chair incident.. There is more going on in your daughters head. Sometimes people’s minds are skewed and don’t hear what our intentions are but hear what they want. Unfortunately your grandchildren have been poisoned by what your daughter says.
What has helped me is this group and some counseling. We are here for you.

knittingnancy218,
If only we had the answer to how to end 'this feud,' sadly we don't. It appears that you have tried to communicate and to try to find out the problems to no avail. It is very difficult once those lines of communications are shut down.
From a practical point of view, setting up a memory box, writing journals ect are all good ways of making note of the things and events that go on through those absent years. Send postcards when you go somewhere, postcards are non threatening as can be read by everyone, keep it simple. And above all else never give up hope. Trust me the most extraordinary things do happen.

Smileless

I would disagree with getting the other children involved. These are adults. My sister and BIL went through a period of estrangement with my parents some years ago, prior to the current period of estrangement. (It was eventually resolved and things seemed to be going okay until 8 months ago. We do understand the reasons for the current estrangement and I don't think it's my parents' fault.) With the previous estrangement, I put myself in the middle and heard both sides of the story as they weren't talking to each other. My brothers heard my parents' side of it too as they were still living at home. It's not a good place to be as an adult child. I can't manage someone else's relationship for them. Now, I just listen to my parents' side and have EEELC (just Facebook and then just public posts) with my sister. I'm not going to get into it.

knittingnancy firstly welcome to this thread but as always it's sorry that you need to be here.

I'm so sorry but I honestly can't suggest anything to end this feud with your daughter; anything that I could have suggested you've already done but to no avail.

You tried to find out what was wrong and once you were told what the problem was, you contacted her and explained that you hadn't meant any harm over the "chair incident", tried to get their Christmas presents to them and continued to send cards. What more can you do?

Can this really be about the chair or is it perhaps a sign that once again things aren't going well with her relationship? It just doesn't make any sense but then again the majority of these estrangements don't make any sense. We've been trying to make sense of ours for more than 5 years.

What does your other daughter and son think about this? What does your husband say?

You haven't ranted so no need to apologise. Now that you've found this thread, there's no need for you to feel that you've no one to talk to because you can talk to us anytime. We don't have solutions but we do provide kindness, understanding and support.

The only suggestion I do have is that you continue to send birthday cards to your daughter, her partner and their children but nothing else.

Leave things as they are because unless your daughter is prepared to have an adult conversation about what's upset her to the extent that she feels it's OK to tell you, her mum, that you've lost her, there really is nothing you can do.

Oh dear....mothers and daughters ...I can't for the life of me understand why your daughter would 'flip' over a seating arrangement.....my daughter and I have arguments..we sometimes say cruel things to each other in the heat of the moment, but we just cool off for a day or two and then one of us will make the first move. She will usually complain to her brothers about me and vice versa, but it's all forgotten.
It looks like you get on well with the other children....why don't one of them organise a family get together in one of their houses and see whether she will attend. This will give you a chance to clear the air and perhaps things will be back to normal.
I really feel for you knittingnancy...hope things work out. Can't be easy , especially with your mobility problems. Could your daughter's partner be the instigator? Just a thought.
All the best

knittingnancy

That's incredibly sad. I'm sorry.

I would suggest that the best thing for you to do is to wait. You might consider putting birthday and Christmas cards into a special box to save for when the children are older, rather than sending them, if you think they won't be well-received.

Meanwhile, I would suggest that you consider some counselling and finding something to occupy your time. I understand that you're upset, but just sitting and obsessing about the situation is not healthy. Counselling and a hobby may help to take your mind off the situation, at least temporarily.

If you try to force a relationship with your daughter and/or your grandchildren, my concern is that you may lose her permanently. If you step back and give her time, she may decide to re-initiate the relationship.