Support for all who are living with estrangement (2)

Thanks for the clarification GG and I apologise for implying that you were being insensitive.

We tend to wear our hearts on our sleeves on this thread and I've known Yogagirl for more than 5 years. Sometimes we're ultra sensitive if we feel that one of us is being unfairly judged or criticised. Hope that makes sense.

Madgran77, Smileless2012 - no, I had absolutely no intention of making a dig at Yogagirl and I apologise to Yogagirl if my post came across that way. I may be wrong here, but I thought Yogagirl had mentioned that her daughter had been affected by her father leaving when she was a child? I wasn't trying to imply anything by that comment, just reiterating it as that kind of trauma i.e. abandonment can predispose or make individuals more likely to suffer from a multitude of mental health problems as adults, for example, PND. Just trying to offer a bit of insight.

Good post Madgran. I also felt that your post GG65 was informative but sadly lacking in compassion for Yogagirl.

You have implied that Yoga's ED had trauma from childhood, I've not seen you on an estrangement thread before so you probably don't know Yogagirl's full and tragic story. Perhaps you should consider your own limited knowledge before making such remarks.

GG65 your post is informative and clearly knowledgeable...it is a pity that your last comment reads rather like a "dig" at another Gnetter, without any actual knowledge about that persons ED's childhood. I hope that wasn't the intention as the rest of the post is interesting and informative.

Yogagirl, you really need to educate yourself on mental health issues and treatments. Ian Brady and Myra Hindley were never sectioned. They were sent to prison. Indeed, Ian Brady spent 19 years in prison before he was diagnosed with, I think, psychopathy. Only then was he transferred to a high security hospital. Only those with a mental health condition which makes them a danger to themselves or others are sectioned. And that is after they have been assessed by a mental health professional who deems them to be as such. Your son in law and his mother did not plot to have your daughter sectioned. That is not possible. Your daughter was obviously very unwell and needed the kind of help that your son in law was not able to give to her. And no, of course she wasn't "locked up" with serious criminals. She was hospitalised with other vulnerable individuals who, in all likelihood, have one thing in common - childhood trauma.

Thanks for sharing that Rhinestone, I'm glad you're pleased with your new hair do.

It must be very confusing and upsetting for GC who suddenly find themselves deprived of the GP's they knew and loved. Thank God our 2 were spared that as the eldest wont remember and the we never got to see the youngest.

Regardless of whether these children ever knew their GP's the lesson they're being taught is the same, that any relationship is temporary and the best way to deal with problems is to give up and walk away.

I had a lovely time with my friend, it had been 2 years since we last got together because of one thing or another so it was really good to have her here for a few days.

Thanks Yogayes we got the the painting finished so it looks lovely, just have to wait for some decent weather to enjoy it.

After some lovely spring like weather it's now horrible again; wet and cold. Just when I was thinking that spring had finally sprung.

SparklySorry . Belated birthday wishes. I hope it was a nice day.
SmilelessDid you have a nice time with your friend ? I hope so.
YogagirlThank you. Yes I like my spring haircut. In fact my hairdresser and I were talking about my situation. He is thirty five and just cannot believe a child would do this to his parent. He adores his family and got them to come here from Albania. He cannot understand the way some young people are treating grandparents with such disrespect. I got a hair cut and therapy all in one price.

Morning all

Welcome back Smileless xx Hope you had a lovely time catching up with your long time friend. Did you get to do that painting of your roof terrace?

Rhinestone Thank you very much for sharing that with us, and yes this estrangement from their loving GP cannot be anything other than harmful to our poor little GC. Hope you are pleased with your haircut, my little Lilly [Westie] is going for a much need haircut & bath today, although the weather is awful this morning.

Sparkly hope you've recovered from all that &

Thanks for sharing nurse

Thank you Smileless and no problems, having a lovely friend to stay is a priority!

I think it depends on the reasons for the estrangement. FIL is estranged from us because he has demonstrated lack of respect and poor behaviour as well as financial abuse of us. (Long story.) Now, sadly, my parents are estranged from my sister and BIL due to actions on the part of sis and BIL. But I think the difference here is how my parents handled it. Sis and BIL asked not to have contact. My parents respected that. They sent one email for Christmas and just said they would be open to a phone call if sis and BIL wanted to speak with them. No reply was given. My parents have not contacted them since and are respecting their boundaries. (FIL has made essentially no direct efforts for contact but BIL brings up the rift every time Hubby talks to him. Hubby tries to change the subject and usually keeps those conversations infrequent.) In our case stepdaughter is not missing much not having FIL in her life. In fact FIL has treated her badly as well and she doesn't want a relationship with him. In my parents' case I think the kids are losing a great deal but that's not my place to make decisions for their family.

I’m in a hurry to get my hair cut but came across this from a psychologist and wanted to get it out to you all.

I think the long-term effects of these estrangements are generally harmful for grandchildren, especially those who were once very attached to the grandparents. They learn that attachments are temporary and that families that were once loving and close can quickly become distant and angry. They're also presented with the model that estrangement is a reasonable way to manage family conflict. In addition, the grandchildren are denied a potentially loving and positive influence in their lives.

I'm hopeful that as there will be greater awareness of the impact of estrangement and alienation that less families have to be faced with it in future generations

'Happy Birthday Sparkly' sorry I'm a bit late but I haven't been on since Wednesday morning as I had my oldest and dearest friend here until yesterday evening.

No Yoga it wasn't April 1st when he took his selfie and let's be honest, it wouldn't have been as funny if he'd done it as an April fool, it was his seriousness that made me laugh.

Well after a rather dismal start it's lovely here it even feels like springso I hope you havewhere ever you are.

Thank you for birthday wishes Yoga and Minty

Had a nice time lunching, spa day and talking till my kaw aches xx

Happy Birthday Sparkly.
I hope this thread will soon get back to why it is here, to give support to grandparents who are estranged from their grandchildren.
The sadness that this brings is devastating and so important for people to know they are not alone and that there is help and support out there for them. No one needs to be alone trying to understand what on earth is going on.

Happy Birthday Sparkly

The most notorious murderers are section & put into a high security mental hospital/prison like Broadmoor, thus preventing them ever getting out through parole, ie; Myra Hindley & Ian Brady. This is completely deferent to someone with actual mental heath issues.

Yoga yes we I think are good at spotting who we can have empathy with and from for our estranged situation.

Lets hope all of us achieve peace, good self esteem....

There is no such thing as a section with no release date, a s2 is for 38 days and is for assessment and a s3 is used for treatment and is for 6 months but a clinician after assessing can release someone on home leave during this time.

The police can section someone under a s136 but only if they are being a danger to themselves or others in a public place.

People who have PND are usually detained on wards near to where they live, with maternity nurses as well as mental health nurses.

People who have been judged by a Court to be crminally insane are detained in special hospitals such as Ashworth and Broadmoor.

Ordinary people just unwell have to be assessed by approved health professionals or an ASW and one health professional, to be sectioned for assessment.

They are not criminals!

Anyway, lets hope todays sunshine carries on. Its been my birthday this week and I am stuffed but happy, tired but so grateful for lovely friends.

Smileless did your hubby do his selfie on the 1st April - April fools day, by any chance

I did an April fool on my class Sunday, telling them to do something that wasn't possible and then announcing April fool

Yogagirl,

One thing that is for sure, my estD would never have harmed her babies

How can anyone be sure of what a person could do in the midst of PND with psychosis? Its one of the reasons why its taken so seriously.

Sectioned means you cannot just walk out of the hospital

I know what being sectioned means. There's a definite process a person goes through. Its not as you suggested.

Your wrong about the Police not being able to arrest and section someone under the mental health act, they can and they do

Im well aware of the process involved in sectioning someone which is why I know if your DD was sectioned they thought there was good reason for it. It just didn't happen because someone asked them to do it which is what you seem to be telling yourself.

Serious murderers? Possibly. But its much more likely that people who are sectioned are just ordinary people who haven't murdered anyone.

Im sorry you're estranged from your DD and DG but there are more informed ways you could think about serious mental health issues and the consequences of them.

An awful time for your ED and you Yoga. I think you're right, that this took place when you and your DD were away so your poor ED had no one to turn too.

Well I hope to make you allwith another amusing anecdote courtesy of Mr. S. He's ordering some new glasses on line and has just been taking a selfie to send to the company.

I couldn't stop laughing as he was poised with his Ipad, sometimes sitting, sometimes standing and sometimes kneeling, trying to get the picture just right with a credit card stuck to his forehead.

I realised he needed the card so they could ascertain the size but he just looked so funny. I don't think it helps that his nose isn't straight as he broke it years ago playing.

He ended up laughing just as much as I did. Brought back memories of the time he followed instructions and pressed his nose to the screen to see a lady passing through a hoop.

Bigboots

I gave credit to my fellow GN's in being capable to ascertain that of course my DD [now estD] would not be sharing a cell with a murderer, but in a locked hospital with other similar young women, but the sentence the same; * sectioned without a release date*

Thank you for your point of view Bigboots

I'm not going to go into everything again, and although it may seem I 'spill the beans' on everything that's gone on, there are some things I don't disclosed. One thing that is for sure, my estD would never have harmed her babies.

Yes she had PND, [hidden from us till later] made a 1000 times worse by her husband telling her she was a bad mother, a bad wife, a bad housewife [all untrue] & that his mother told him daily to divorce her. All this I learnt after I made the mistake of mediating to get them back together. Yes the timing of their big argument was definitely planned for when I & her sister were away, so therefore we couldn't help her.

Sectioned means you cannot just walk out of the hospital. When the doctors called her dear husband the next day, to come and collect her as she just had the 'baby blues' so was fine to be released into his care, his answer was No!, I don't want her back, she can stay there! This he told me himself, in one of the hundreds of phone calls he made to me during this time. She was then released into my care, if there were no one for her to be released to, she would still be locked up now, just how her dear husband and his mother wanted it. They didn't love her, shown clearly in their actions!

Your wrong about the Police not being able to arrest and section someone under the mental health act, they can and they do.

So true Smileless & Sparkly and yes it certainly does knock your self esteem. I had a really good nights sleep last night, so feel better this morning, you don't realise until Xmas, Easter comes along, how much it effects you

I know some women without children can empathise with us, my sister-in-law's partner does, but my sister & sister-in-law don't understand the eminence pain of losing your child & grandchild, even mothers & grandmothers wouldn't fully understand, unless they'd been there themselves.

It's 8yrs since my dear mum passed away, it was Easter Sunday when she went, horrid ending & with my dad, miss them so much I speak to them every day and ask them to have a word with Jesus up there were they are. I have their ashes caskets on my sideboard, the ashes are in the 'Garden of Remembrance' but I figure there is still a remnant of them left in the caskets to 'speak to' You can't have someone in your life, all your life and then not want speak to them again, but then our AC do, don't they

YogaGirl, I read your comments re your DD being being sectioned -

"yet stay with a husband & m.i.l that have you picked up by the police, put in a mental hospital and sectioned meaning you can't be released [what they do to the most serious murderers!] This coincidentally done when I & my DD were away on holiday, so my estD had no one to help her, if I'd been home she would have phoned me & I would have immediately drove to pick her and the C up! Her crime; 'baby blues'!"

It would appear that you're very confused as to what it takes for a person to be sectioned. You just can't call the police and ask for someone to be sectioned. Its a decision made by a team of mental health professionals and I suspect your daughter had more than a case of what you refer to as the baby blues. I think its possible she was in actual fact suffering from very serious post natal depression that can result in psychosis and suicidal thoughts, some women with this form of depression even want to kill their babies.

And your comment about her being locked up like the most serious murderers. Surely you meant she was in hospital with people from all walks of life who had temporary or long term very serous mental health problems that required highly specialise care, and because they couldn't make a decision regarding their care it was made for them by others.

I think far from giving the other family a hammering for doing what they did you really need to be thinking that at a time when your daughter was unwell her husband and in laws did what they had to do to get her help.

Was the timing of her being hospitalised suspicous? I doubt it thought I understand why you'd like to believe that. PND can occur months after a baby being born and it can come on very quickly so it may have seemed to you that she was ok one day and not ok the next. It could even be that she had the 'baby blues' when you last saw her and that became something else entirely days later.

This link explains sectioning and the role of family members in particular.

www.mind.org.uk/information-support/legal-rights/sectioning/family-members/#.WsR7GS-mPVo

This link explains the 'baby blues" in its reality.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/post-natal-depression/symptoms/

www.nhs.uk/conditions/post-partum-psychosis/#treating-postpartum-psychosis

This was a very good documentary. Perhaps its still available on line.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2016/02/16/postpartum-psychosis-bbc-documentary_n_9237330.html