Support for all who are living with estrangement (2)

Yogagirl I wonder too why your ED would allow them to do that to her and not fear they would put her in a hospital again. She estranged herself from her sister right?
I called a lawyer ( I guess you call them solicitors) about mediation but I don’t think my ESS would show up and then it would cost us more money.
I have turned into a bitter and hateful woman towards my ESS and his nasty wife. And now my DH daughter is not calling us? She was too busy to call him on his birthday and he called her a few time previous to Feb. How busy are you in the car on the way home?
Just excuses and I’m sick of all the disrespect. I had every reason to not let my children see their grandmother when she was manic but I didn’t do it. She was my mom and her bipolar disease was genetic and not her choice.

Hello Smileless Maybe my Judge thought she would do the politically correct thing, with my s.i.l being a gypsy. I knew from the moment I walked in she was against me and for them. When I went into the carpark after the hearing, his mother was there and she came up to me and said I wrote the court statement, and they believed every bloody word of it, hahaha! Hence why I now have no faith in the justice system.

The GC are not involved in the court case at all. But as I've said, many times before, I can now see that going to court is not the way to go and if I could turn the clock back.......
Mediation; a definite 'Yes'

I say often to my DD that I can't believe my estD is happy, how can you be happy CO'ing everyone in your life that love and adore you & your children , yet stay with a husband & m.i.l that have you picked up by the police, put in a mental hospital and sectioned meaning you can't be released [what they do to the most serious murderers!] This coincidentally done when I & my DD were away on holiday, so my estD had no one to help her, if I'd been home she would have phoned me & I would have immediately drove to pick her and the C up! Her crime; 'baby blues'!

Rhinestine 'go for it', if you don't you'll regret not trying 'one last time' and mediation is completely different to going to court. I did go to mediation, it was the best thing I did in all this hell, the mediator was wonderful, I cried in front of her, she was very sympathetic. BUT, the other party [AC] are invited to attend, mine didn't, so that was the end of that and in my case, the papers were then forwarded to the courts and off we went!

In mediation the first app is just for you, then with your AC, then with their partner, so all 3 of you, or 4 if you go with your husband, which I would advise, to help your husband. Good luck xx

If these AC had any concern for their children, they wouldn't deny them loving GP's but the sad truth is that many of these AC put their own selfish desire to exact revenge on the very people who loved and raised them, above anything else, above their own children.

We know from our DS that our eldest GC is asking questions and those questions are being ignored, the subject is changed. IMO at the very least our ES should tell his son that they don't want any contact with us and that is why he can't see us. For goodness sake be honest.

This isn't going to go away. At some point our GC are going to be old enough to seek us out if they want too, they'll no longer be totally controlled by their parents and may well find the truth unpleasant when they learn how much the GP's they were denied loved them and wanted to be a part of their lives.

Rhinestone you are lucky to have your DD's children in your life as is Yogagirl with her DD's little girl and another on the way but that doesn't take away the pain that losing other GC has caused.

It wouldn't do any harm to ask your husband to write to his son but I suspect that he wont want to do so and I can understand why. I wouldn't contact our ES. I wrote to him nearly 2 years ago asking if we could see our GC and he ignored my request.

TBH, if there was the slightest possibility of any of these EAC relenting, they'd do so without the need for counselling. They know the truth, the reality of our estrangements. They know we don't deserve to be treated in this way and neither to their children, but they simply don't care.

Yogagirl "I will now refer to you as Laila's dad". He isn't her father and never will be; step father yes but father no. Not unless she comes to regard him in that way. I can't help but think that your judge had an ax to grind.

We did take legal advice in the early days of our estrangement and decided not to go ahead because we just knew it would be a waste of time. Even if we'd won in court, if they chose to disregard the ruling we'd have had to have gone back to court.

We didn't want to subject our GC to the process; as far as putting our ES and his wife through it, that didn't bother us in the slightest.

And one more thing ... isn’t it weird that a GP has more rights when their GC is born out of wedlock or the parent is dead or divorced than when it’s an intact family?

THank you all for the kind words. So could I have your opinion? I would like my husband to try one last thing before we give up. I would like him to write a letter saying he would be willing to go to counseling to work this out if he wanted. Or does this sound too desperate?
You can tell I don’t give up until I have tried everything.

Morning all

Well I agree with you all re not going to court, but at the time I was in shock at what had happened out of the blue and a grieving brain works differently to a normal one, and that's a fact. Also I knew I had to work quick, couldn't sit on my heels, if you wait a year or two, it would be said you no longer know the C and vise versa, this was even put to the courts after just 8mnths!

Knowing what I know now, court is definitely not the way to go, although having said that, some GP have succeeded, like musicman but got 2hrs once every 2mnths! As he said 'better than nothing'

Yoga how sad he put his freedom before your lovely children. [Flowers]

joannab I agree I wouldn't put myself through the court process and also wouldn't put my estDS through it either, though I know others wouldn't agree.

Rhinestone many commiserations on your sad news..

Hi,

Yoga what an awful time you and your then children experienced.

Rhinestone sorry for your recent disappointment and hope time heals the grief of the news.

For me, the court route is something I personally just wouldn't put myself through for maybe, at the end of months or even years of challenging through the courts, at a huge expense, just getting letter box contact or a meeting once or twice a year.

Our grandchildrens' parents are in full control it seems, not fair on us estranged grandparents, not fair at all.

Rhinestone, I'm so sorry the lawyer had disappointing news. But glad you checked first. If it helps, at all, please remember that even if a gp is allowed to file for visitation, that doesn't mean they'll get it. Idk, but I imagine an intact couple standing united in what they think (or say they think) is "best for" their child is a powerful force. I don't think too many judges want to get a reputation for going against united parents making choices for their children. So I doubt that many gps win those cases, anyway.

Yes Sparkly terrible for the C, I pleaded with my H not to leave as, to think of the C and how hurt they will be, but he only thought of himself and what a great time was about to begin for him with his new found bachelorhood!

Rhinestone so sorry you got bad news on the visitation procedure. I think of the judge that denied my application for visitation order to see my beloved GC. She rubbed salt in the wound by saying after the verdict to my GD stepdad; I will now refer to you as Laila's dad This women, the Judge, had no idea of the pain, no idea of the injustice, no idea of the damage to my precious GD, no idea of my crying each & every day, and still to this day! The Judge was wrong, she helped this boy destroy my family, my DDs [both of them], my S & my GC. I have no faith in the justice system and would love that Judge to read some of the heart-breaking post on GN, then maybe a small sliver of understanding would appear!

Good Morning All- I hope it’s a good day for everyone.
Now that I’ve had my cry all night I can share with you what my lawyer friend said about grandparents rights.
He said if the family is intact ( no divorce or death in our children’s marriages) then my state has no grandparents rights except when one parent has divorced or died. A few states do have the law that allows ANY estranged grandparent the right to go to court and file to see their grandchild. He said it’s all political and asked the democrats in my state why they wouldn’t pass the bill as he proposed it with the grandparent being able to have rights even though the family was intact. The democrats didn’t want to pass the bill and when he asked why they said because “ it won’t pay our dues.” Now what the heck does that mean? He said they even had a psychologist on board to help their cause. He said I could go to court but would not win and would just wind up paying the court costs.
He did say I could write some other politicians in my state asking for the law to change.
I told my husband that his last option now was to write a letter saying he would go to family counseling if my stepson wanted. So there you have it. Our children have all the power and must be so delighted to have it.
I had hope but no more. Now I’m a nasty mean lady if anyone asks me about my other grandkids. The truth shall be spoken.
I know that I am lucky to still have my DD ‘s children but to love a child and then have them stolen from you is unbearable as you all know.
So I shall move on but I just cannot let it all go yet even after three years.

Yoga so sad the effect on young children....

So pleased I spent the day on the beach yesterday, the sea was calm, the sky blue, sun shinning & warm

Today a blizzard!

Thank you NanKat Sparkly & Rhinestone Yes it was awful, my Son felt it the most, he was only 6yrs and really missed his dad terribly. My eldest being 9yrs at the time. remembers it all and has put the others in the picture about what really happened, as their dad told porkies about why he went. My youngest was only 3yrs, so I thought she would be the least effected, but turned out to be the opposite.

She [now estD] always had an adverse reaction when he visited, took me a while to connect the two, but when I realised, it became quite plain to see. I fought for 5yrs+ in the courts to get him to pay child maintenance, but he never did, owing to living in a different country, it was hard to get it tied up. I managed to finally get him tied down, making one payment, he then ditched his job, opened a Thai restaurant with his girlfriend and surprise, surprise the restaurant run at a loss, so therefore no spare money to support his children!

My esD cut her dad out too, but only after she her husband, had brought him into the picture to crucify me, with the most awful round robin emails, to everyone under the sun, full of lies. I had to call the police in the end, as it just was not going to stop! Before this, my estD never wanted anything to do with him! So I think he felt chuffed to be called in, but as I told him at my eldest D wedding, when he tearfully told him he had been CO'd and he didn't know why; they used you, against me, then when the evil deed was done, out you went!

Yes Rhinestone my DS could sell this house which is worth about £475,000, but he has already offered her £250,000 to go which she has ignored. He says why should he move as he has done nothing wrong in his opinion.

Also he does all his writing in his writing studio in the garden and feels that it is important to continue working there. I am sure his publisher would confirm the importance of him staying.

Our DS has told us that when his 7 year old was told about them having two houses he said ‘but I can’t drive yet to get to the both houses’ - just heartbreaking.

Good Morning- In the states it used to be that you could get more benefits if your husband was having an affair but they don’t even ask that now. My DD got divorced a year ago and they put them through Friend of the Court to
discuss children and arrangements. They don’t even deal with adulterous issues. It’s all about the children and doing mediation to iron out custody and financial matters. You don’t even see a judge if you agree.
NanKateI hope your DS gets most of the custody if not all. Several of my DD’s male friends have the most custody as their X wives don’t care about the family and have left. Would it be possible for your son to sell the house and then they split the money and he can buy something afterwards?
YogagirlThat has to be a terrible time for you and your children. Could that be why your estranged child is not speaking to you. Does she blame you? Does she talk to her dad? Sometimes children don’t know the whole story and assume things that are incorrect. Anyways what a horrible thing for him to do to you let alone the children.
The lawyer I needed to talk to has been out of town this last week so hoping to talk to him this next week.

‘Yoga’ how dreadful being left like that abroad. It took 9 years for my divorce as the ex, having agreed a financial agreement, then changed his mind and tried to get the financial Consent Order overturned, which didn’t work.

I was so exhausted by the long fight, I have remained single.

Good luck to your son ‘Nankat’

Given not give !!

Thank you all for your supportive posts.

My son has now sent off for the Decree Nisi so we are one tiny step forward.

How dreadful Yoga to be abandoned like that. So pleased you have give your ExH the boot.

Yes NanKat best for your son to state in court, as Fairydoll has said above. My husband left me with 3 little C in a foreign country, to be a bachelor again, to take advantage of all the young Thai & Indonesia girls at his work throwing themselves at him, even though they knew he was married with small C. Once we were divorce, and I & the C had moved back to UK, my eldest C told me that he now regrets what he did, too late mate!

Hi All,
Just catching up on everyone's posts here.
NanKate I do hope everything works out well for your son and his children.
How is everyone ?
I'm looking forward to the longer days, it has felt like a very long winter.

That's right NanKate...here it's a 'no fault' divorce equals to "unreasonable behaviour".... my ex put me through hell for most of my marriage, affair after affair, even a questionable pregnancy of one of the other women, but yet my solicitor said, I was not allowed to mention all this in the divorce petition.

I believe in America, you can cite his/her affairs, and the offending party will be penalised, in the financial settlement. I may be wrong, but that's what I heard.

Hope all goes well. It's lovely that your son has his Fatherinlaw's support.
All the best xx

That’s right NanKate. Adultry was used many years ago as a reason for divorce. Now, it’s just ‘unreasonable behaviour’ which can cover anything. Rarely are divorces refused.

Regarding the property: your son needs to provide evidence that his home is his workplace. That could work in his favour, particularly as he would seem best placed to care for the children when they are ill. Something to think about - if his wife is awarded the house, who will look after the children when she’s off on her nights out/weekends away. She won’t have a resident babysitter Will she?

I would say FIL is right, the relationship won’t stay the course.

Both my close relatives (male) who went through traumatic divorces, found that their wives regretted their affairs (once they realised the grass wasn’t greener) and tried to reunite.
Both the husbands refused as they had moved on.

Yes Marydoll my DinL knows my son wants to stay put and initially months ago she agreed to leave, but since then she has got herself a lawyer who we think will suggest she tries to stay in the house.

My son has been told that her adultery will not be taken into account if this does go to court, that is our worry. He had hoped his wife would discuss things amicably and he is prepared to be generous but she refuses to get into any dialogue with him over the divorce.

My DinL's boyfriend is in his 40s, never married and no children, lives in a small rented house and a low paid job, so from this we think he has little money. My son's lovely FinL seems to think the relationship will not last. My DinL definitely no longer wants our son and is mentally cruel to him, so there is no possibility of a reconciliation.

I just hope and pray my DS does not have a mental breakdown, whilst trying to support the children and continue a stressful job where he has to meet deadlines for his writing.

It does help to have this thread to come to in order to unburden myself. Thanks.