sons

Don't believe that 'a son's a son till he takes a wife'. I did and regret it.

Thanks for the kind comments on my earlier post. My son’s Dad joined the RAF at 16, moved out from home and never moved back … his parents moved house without telling him (days before mobile phones and it would have been down to the son to phone the parents, being in RAF digs). He found out because he was riding his motorbike down to their house and saw them driving on the other side of the motorway ….

Since the split with my husband I’d gone away at Christmas, not liking my son to feel he has to be “home” with me (gosh, Italy at Christmas was blooming wonderful)! In 2016 my son asked me not to go away that Christmas as he’d spent the previous 3 Christmas’s with his Dad and Grandma and was bored to sorry sobs … Then his Dad made plans to spend Christmas at his new girlfriends and my boy felt he had to go to Grandma’s on his own … So I booked for a ski resort in Bulgaria for myself with a friend that organises such trips – mad with jealousy my son “abandoned” Grandma to her other son and his family and came with me – we discussed if his finances would reach to a room on his own, but it was decided we’d share a twin room. Again, we gave each other space, we were on holiday so didn’t spend much time in the room – I took a portable DVD player and we’d watch films late at night; there was a spa for me and skiing for him. It made for a very special Christmas for us and we’ve got some lovely memories (and smashing photos)!

I posted this earlier, but it didn't come through some how... Rock, I'm so sorry for your diagnosis. Imo, ac often have a hard time facing a parent's illness. And yes, if it's genetic, I can see where that's even more difficult. Kudos to dd for being there for you so much. But tbf, she probably has more time and a more flexible schedule since no kids.

Should you "demand more" from ds? Not unless you want to cause drama! If DIL resents his time on the phone with you, can you imagine her reaction if you ask for anything more?

His marriage sounds a little toxic to me from the way you describe it (though IDK how you know so many details). But if they're happy, I guess it's working for them. I'm glad neither you or ds go on about it.

If you want more contact with him, you can message each other here on fb, surely? Or have you the occasional email? There are so many more ways to keep in touch today than there used to be. No need to push.

I guess it depends on how you look at it. I see it as a gradual "letting go," beginning with the first day you send them off to school. We may remain close throughout life, if we're fortunate. But, as stella says, "our roles change," and our "kids" gain more autonomy as they enter their teens and then adulthood.

I don't have a ds, but my dd also enjoys an independent life with her dh and children. Yes, I go places with her, sometimes, and other times with her and her family. But they also do things as a family unit alone or with friends who are also young parents with children.

So, no, I don't see any harm in a mother and son going to a concern together, now and then, Or with her joining him and his gf to go somewhere sometimes. I do think it's odd if they do it regularly. I certainly wouldn't envy them. I can't help but wonder if the gf is really on board with that Rock? Chances are, if she becomes his dw, that will change a little - or a lot.

Again, I don't have a ds, but I can't imagine being jealous of a parent and ac who are "obsessed with" each other. Imo, that's abnormal and likely to mean ac will never have a good relationship with a lover, let alone spouse. That's disgusting, imo!

Your original question makes me wonder - you ask when we should "let our sons go" as if this is the normal thing to do. In my family , I didn't expect to let my children go at all. They were not birds to be shoved out of the nest at a certain time in their lives. My kids are 38 and 41 - I get along great with them and their partners and children. There has never been a time when I "let them go". They left home and made their own families ,but we still see each other often since they live in the same city. And yes I even go to concerts with them - and I don't think this is "creepy". My kids never cut ties with me when they grew up - they just became more like friends and less like dependent kids. To me that is what family is all about - our roles change but the closeness remains . Nobody ever gets "let go".

I have two sons in their 40s, one single, one married with children. They live miles away. I encouraged (almost forced) them to go to universities away from their home area, because I consider leaving home is part of growing up, so basically they both left home at the age of 18. They lived here sporadically in their early twenties, but now both live in the London area, a couple of hundred miles from me.

I see much more of the single one, and we talk often on the phone. He simply has more time. The married one will get in touch regularly, but not all that frequently. His in-laws live about an hour’s drive away from them, so he sees them much more often than he sees me. Yes, I have felt envious from time to time, but it is inevitable and I mind less as time goes on. It’s good he gets on with them all right.

They are both much better than my brother was, I’m glad to say. He virtually ignored my mother, and never remembered her birthday, or showed any interest when she was getting old and frail. It’s very odd, because he only had good examples from my father.

I always wanted a daughter, and was very surprised to have only boys. However, I have heard plenty of stories about difficult daughters, and am not so bothered now. I think I wanted a particular kind of daughter (one much like me!), so I could have been disappointed. I have a small granddaughter, but that’s different, of course.

Nice to read all of this . I have three sons two married and I see youngest the most ( unattached) but I do feel sidelined sometimes with the married ones and also second best to the in laws. I just carry on and try to be optimistic about the future so glad I brought up such independent men. I do have four lovely grndchildren and enjoy the limited time I spend with them.

For me a son's a son for the whole of his life, regardless of whether he has a wife. We'll have been married for 38 years this year and Mr. S. sees his mum at least once a week and often speaks to her on the 'phone. He's done that our entire married life, taking the time to see both his parents while his dad was alive.

I don't like that saying about sons and daughters; there isn't an equivalent one about daughters is there. 'Daddy's girl' and 'mummy's boy' have such negative connotations.

If an AS is particularly close to his mother why is that regarded as weird or abnormal? Why is it assumed that the mother is smothering and clinging? It could be the son who for what ever reason needs or wants to have that closeness with his mum.

We should be wary of judging other peoples relationships. We were extremely close to our youngest son, he and I particularly close. Before he was married his wife used to complain to him about it. I remember one evening his future f.i.l. making a derogatory comment about our relationship.

Not long before they were married she told me she used to our closeness but she'd 'got over that now'. Without warning, 8 months after our first GC was born we were cut out; that was more than 5 years ago.

So I guess she never did get over her.

I have 2 ADs and 1 AS. They all live well over 3 hours’ away. I’m now single, having been separated from their father over 10 years ago, and he has since died. I’m 67. My Ds have 3 gorgeous young children under 4, and my S is single. I rarely hear from him, but I deliberately arrange to visit him, ostensibly to help out with his new flat but actually just to keep up the family contact. My Ds and their Hs have v demanding jobs, and would love even more help from me, ie involving a move to be nearer them. (I visit them both at least once a month already to do childcare, babysit, help with cleaning or gardening or sometimes just to visit.) But they both live far apart, don’t have that close a relationship and, as I live in the north, property is a lot more expensive in their areas. So any move will involve offending one of them! I do help as much as I can, and am just waiting for something to happen to make any decisions clear. Any advice?

I'm very lucky.... my sons are 36 and 34, and live within a mile of me. The younger one has his own house, a good job, is single with no children (he's enjoying dating women again, after a relationship split). We see him probably once every 3 weeks when we go out for meals as a family.

The eldest son is with a woman, but is separated from his children (they live with he mother). He sees them every Wednesday, when I go with him to collect them and take them out (he doesn't drive). He also has the children to stay at his house every other weekend, and we all go out as a family on the Sunday when they are with him. I don't think you can DEMAND more of your son. If you would like to see him more frequently, could perhaps suggest meals out/dinner at your place or something. Good luck.

I agree Apricity. Though life is even more complicated than that...my son is so independent he found a girl who can do nothing (in my book) except - very important obviously, make her man seem totally wonderful. So she does not work, ..he has high powered job, comes home puts the kids to bed, cooks the supper...and she tells him he is wonderful. I thought that reactionary behaviour had gone out with the ark. Not so.
I can see the appeal to him he feels all powerful and in fact enjoys being so utterly in control. I worry about her actually as she must be so bored and in her efforts to control has lost all control of her own life, like her mother she is probably headed for illness or some kind of incapacity. What happens to so many women in this trap. She is also encouraging her two daughters to be 'daddy's girl' which he also likes. She was so upset when she found out her daughter had to wear glasses, I can only cross my fingers and hope they get through. The eldest grandaughter hardly speaks, although she is six but loves books and wears glasses, the younger one seems much more gung ho. I can only hope and pray they find their own strengths as well as love their dad.
If he is ever on the phone to me Dil makes a drama and interrupts. She doesn't think I am worth the time of day, and I don't think it is personal. She is not a woman who likes, or admires other women. Her mother is ignored too. I wanted to get to know mother but the father stepped in and said I wasn't to write to her as she found it difficult to see.
So as a kind liberal feminist I did everything I could to make my son a wonderful husband and father ...and rather succeeded too well.
I know that if my husband was still alive Dil would be much better behaved. And I wish I was in a relationship for that reason! (OK others too)
Of course he doesn't complain about her and I wouldn't dream of doing so to him.
When my American sister in law visited last year she met them all and afterwards just said. My god she got pay dirt there. But at what cost I wonder.

I too was blessed with a DS and DD, both now happily married and leading their own busy lives. I believe they will be loved and supported by their family and friends long after I am gone. I can enjoy the time we spend together now and remember all the happy years when they were growing up and brought all the happiness I could have wished for and more. Would I like to be more involved - of course but I am proud of them and wish them well. Xx

I have no daughters so cannot comment on that relationship but I have 2 DS's who live locally and live their own lives though I see them frequently and they are there in a flash if I am ill or have some disaster. So are their partners who are lovely girls. (I don't usually ask them).

DS 3 however, lives with me and so do his children for several days a week. Financially he has been unable to find a place of his own since he split from his partner. I would love it if he moved on as there are times when I feel I
cannot stand it!!! He has turned into his father with all the same habits and failings and it seems I have gone back 30 years to those miserable times. I could divorce the husband but I cannot divorce the son! To be fair he would always help and support me but I have to ask, repeatedly, which I won't do.

When my two daughters were in their twenties and dating they had a rule not to date men who were still living at home with their parents. Their view was that these men had never learnt to look after themselves - their shopping, meals, washing etc was still being done by Mum. They were often not paying any rent or board and consequently had little idea about the real costs of living and money management. These were men who were likely to expect the same from a girlfriend or future wife. Keeping a son dependent can be a very effective way of ensuring they don't end up with a partner. How many dramas, films, sitcoms are based around that theme?

This is very different to maintaining a positive, loving relationship with a son who is living his own life. Obviously there are particular circumstances or periods where extra support may be needed but the aim is always to support them and upskill them to get back on their own two feet. As another poster has pointed out the brutal reality is we aren't always going to be around. What happens to the dependent son then?

Mothers who cling to sons are doing their sons no favours. This is not love. Hard as it is we must let them go, to make their own mistakes, deal with the consequences and learn to work for the life they want to lead.

There are times though when I do have to have a stern word to myself. We bring up our children to be independent and then they damn well go off and do it!!

I have and son and daughter and we are emotionally quite close probably because they were both living at home in their early twenties when my husband died unexpectedly. We gave each other a lot of support at that time of need. Now a good many years on, my daughter is married with a baby and lives not far away, and my son and his girlfriend are currently overseas but will be returning to my house in a few months time. We love it when we all get together, but also support each other in our separate lives. Family has always meant a lot to us including aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. I feel very blessed. Having said that, my son in not the best communicator in this world, but his girlfriend keeps us posted! Everyone is different and that adds to life's rich pattern.

I only have 1 DD so can't comment too much on Mothers & Sons except I have been married 3 times & each H had a different relationship with their DM.

I moved to be closer to my DD when I was widowed, I live about 25mins drive away, an arrangement which suits both of us. I never just "drop in" on DD, we arrange times or meet out for coffee. I have 2 DGS, one is almost 8 & younger one is 10 months, also DD's OH is disabled. We can go weeks without seeing each other but regularly message on facebook. We do occasionally speak on the phone but find it more convenient to message as it doesn't intrude if either of us are busy.

I find that men very often need reminding to contact family members, they don't seem to attach the same importance in keeping in regular contact as women do. All relationships are different & sometimes it's not what we would wish for but I brought my DD up to be independent & am glad she has made her own life as I'm sure DGSs will in time.

I have a daughter who went off to uni, met her partner, got married and 2nd child on the way. My 2 ds's both still live at home in loft extension we had done to give them both large rooms and shower room to share. I wish they would find partners and set up homes of their own. My sisters say it is my fault for making them too comfortable which makes me feel guilty. I don't think youngest (23) could afford deposit for mortgage even if he wanted to.

I understand exactly how you feel, my son is married and lives about an hour away, I help him out with his children as he is divorced, but I don’t hear from him from one week to another otherwise , I try to ignore the hurt but sometimes .....

I love my two sons more than life itself but they are very different to the relationship I have with my daughter, just slightly more cautious with the boys for some reason, one married and one like a bloody boomerang but will always be different from daughter.

When I had four young daughters I disliked boys and said that their mothers always favoured them over their sisters. I’ve known many men who remain smothered by their mothers, who will not let them be independent.
My opinions changed when I got one grandson among a crowd of granddaughters. He was different from every one of the girls from earliest babyhood.
People say boys are more loving and I now understand why some mothers dote on their sons but God help those poor women who fall for a man who puts his mother first and whose mother feels that her daughter in law has stolen her son.

I have 4 adult youngsters. 3 boys and 1 daughter. 2 of my boys have stayed in the area we live. They have both moved away in The U.K for various reasons and moved back.

1 is married with a son now. The other came home as he has health problems.

Then my daughter now lives in Canada and the other lad in N-Z.

I think it is down to person and or her factors. To keep them let them go. We still do things with our eldest daughter in law etc. I have a great relationship with them.

There can be no hard and fast rule! It's down to personalities too

the saying "If you love them let them go!" springs to mind!! I have 2 DSs both of whom I have a good, loving relationship with and both of who live their own lives. I am happy that they will one day find wives and start families (no sign of that yet at 30 and 28!) and accept that then I probably won't be number one in their lives BUT that's life. I'm lucky enough to have a DD and we are very close but not to the point of being in each others pockets. We mums must accept that our boys will one day find 'another woman'!

There's nothing as sad as an adult son who spends all his spare time with his mother. I watched a local man go everywhere with his aging mother. He lost the chance to meet someone and have his own life. A few years ago the mother died. I now see him wandering aimlessly through the town, no job, no life. I'm glad that my son is married and bringing up his two children, without me!

Maidmarion What a silly boy he is!! Do I discern that you are determined not to let it get you down, even though you can see how lucky other mothers are?
I can relate, not to a son who is uncommunicative,
as I have no son, but in a different way of being jealous of other people's family.
I grew up in an unhappy family due to my mother's behaviour. Often in conversations, in meetings, groups, at Church, on Mothering Sunday, Christmas etc. I have to listen to all the others reminiscing about their wonderful mothers. It is so painful. So I know the "they have no idea how lucky they are" and "why am I the only one?" feelings.
Take heart my love, I know you are not alone, son-wise. I have seen many other mothers in distress about sons and some of them have sons who do terrible things.

Just some thoughts but probably not much use from a distance; Maybe he is mildly autistic? Nothing to be ashamed of. It's big in my family and the men wouldn't do anything if we women didn't organise it. Or; There's the small chance he has "endogenous" depression. that's depression that just floats in from nowhere and puts people under a cloud where they become lethargic and inert and do not communicate unless forced to do so. Or; Maybe it's just the way he is and there's nothing to worry about, he doesn't mean anything by it. I have a tendency not to write or phone often, and my children are the same. We always say, we know we are there if we want each other. Or; Maybe he's just a man!! Frankly most men I know need a bomb under them to remember to write/phone their parents! But don't let it stop you keeping in touch with him.
Ignore all the "my wonderful son" conversations and go out and make your own fun!
Lots of love,

LondonMzFitz You are not creepy. Yes, you are blessed with a lovely and caring son. You appreciate him and know not everyone is so lucky. But then, you've had the terrible experience of your husband! I am so sorry to hear of that. I am glad your son treats you as one of his friends and includes you in the things they do.
We are all different and have different experiences, but reading GN is so heart-warming as one realises how many kind and caring people there are out there.