Difficult DIL- time to deal with it?

Aggy 21 Your question seems to have become a little lost in others' experience, which at least shows you that you are not alone in this problem.

You say that both you your son and daughter in law have become more distant and formal in the course of the last ten years, so unless you know of something that happened ten years ago that caused this, I am afraid that you will just have to accept that they seem to want a formal relationship with you and your DH.

The next point is that your DH obviously feels that the atmosphere when the family visits is unpleasant.

I'm afraid that the suggestions that you should take a step back and actually do less, instead of falling over yourself to be nice is the only workable route, here.

If you try to get either your son or DIL to explain what they feel has gone wrong in your relationship, you might well end in a nasty family quarrel, which I am sure none of you want, and that you would all regret later. Any such quarrel would probably lead to your not being able to see your grandchildren, at all.

I'm sorry if this is not the answer you were looking for, but I am nearly certain that it is the best way to solve the problem.

See less of the family and perhaps when you do invite them, invite other family members or friends at the same time.

I hope this will lead to the atmosphere becoming easier.

Even if you phrase it as "give DIL a break", asking your son to bring the children without his wife may not be very well received.

If a DIL is feeling hostile to her MIL, and does not trust her, the last thing she wants to do is to allow her children around said MIL without adequate supervision, and in those circumstances the DH may not seem adequate supervision. Why would you trust your children to someone you don't like?

I'm not saying that that is right, but it is the way some DILs feel, so asking for time with the kids without DIL may get you into even more trouble. If you want a relationship with your grandkids, you need a relationship with both their parents.

Find a way to work on the relationship with your DIL, not by sitting her down and demanding answers. Learn to love her. Find out how she thinks a positive relationship looks like, and do that.

Not a DIL but my own daughter. When we lived in the same town, I was always helping, babysitting etc. At one point we had a major arguement in public and I walked away. My D would range from being a loving caring daughter to being extremely nasty and all points in between.
The argument cleared the air and they moved to a larger house shortly afterwards, (not as a result of our argument), and our relationship began to slowly improve since I was no longer at her beck and call 24/7.
Now, after 16 years, we accept that we both have separate lives, with separate and joint friends. Our relationship is now closer than ever but there are times when we clash but I no longer agonise over it and will answer her back, especially when she talks to me as though I'm a child, (an answer like "yes mum" usually has us laughing).
It has taken a lot of hard work, give and take from both of us and compromise.
With the OP, step away, let your DIL have her 'space' and ask your son to bring the children to visit on his own, to give DIL a break. Invite DIL to family birthdays, Christmas etc and leave it to that. Send her money or tokens for her Birthday and Christmas and a pretty card so that she can choose her own gifts. Continue being polite and friendly, continue inviting her to join you but don't stress if DIL chooses not too attend.
Sometimes, as has already been stated, we just don't get on with people, and it's best to give these people space, and not to force attendance.
My youngest sister and I simply do not get on and only meet when it's unavoidable. We are politely formal, speak through gritted teeth, on her part, and spend as little time as possible in each others company. At all other times there is no contact.
It might well be that this is the relationship the OP will have with her DIL, unfortunately but remaining polite and friendly for the sake of son and GCS.

What does ELC and NC stand for?

I'm checking Gransnet as I pack to go away and all I can say is take a step back concentrate on your dh been through this and feel when I distanced myself a bit wAs treat more civil. No easy solution I send you hugs. X

Sometimes I wonder if more is made of reluctance to visit because it is an IL. I get on well with my MIL, she is a lovely woman. We go to my MILs every Sunday, I can only think of a handful of times over more than ten years that DH has gone with DS on his own because I haven’t felt well.

My SIL on the other hand (MILs daughter) now comes less than 50% of the time and often doesn’t tell MIL if or when she is turning up, sometimes her partner and children are there, sometimes none turn up.

Nothing much is said about this but I think for MIL it’s a bit of a slap in the face to get a lovely dinner together just for only half the people to turn up. If it were me doing that as a DIL I think a lot more thought would be put into why wasn’t I turning up, had something been done or said, which could then lead to an atmosphere of second guessing and hurt feelings. As it’s her daughter then it is shrugged off.

Why is it so often sons wives do not get on with in laws?
I had a difficult relationship with my MIL I was never good enough in her opinion, yes she did tell me so.
I have tried hard to be a good MIL but not worked, not just me not in favour our daughter & her children too not welcome. Our son were told is now a member of her family since marriage not ours. It’s hard but we just try best we can to get along as don’t want to loose contact.

Oh dear! more/laid.

Leave it. Be a bit mire laud back and don't keep asking your son if there is anything wrong with his wife. His loyalty lies with her and he is likely to tell her that you asked the question which, in turn, might cause friction between them.
It seems a recurring theme on GN that mother's of sons have significantly more difficult relationships with their DiL than mother's of daughters have with their SiL.
Then there is a subliminal tussle re which GPs see the GC more or has more interaction with the ACs family as a whole.
Back off and let THEM do the deciding.
I've never had a problem with my DiL × 2 or my SiL × 3 or the various other GPs and GC and that's because I let THEM call the shots. I make weekly 10 min calls to each family
and meanwhile get on with my own life and let them live theirs. Who knows what financial, emotional, work related or other problems they may be facing. Your AC may not want to bare all to parents and differences between couples are a private matter. If they want help or advice they will ask.
I haven't a clue as to how often the CG see their other GPs.
If they mention it, fine but I never ask or 'dig' for information.
Anyway, that's my recipe for harmony and I get on famously with the partners and inlaws of my children. It works for me.

There was a post on here a couple of days ago,from a DIL who was acting that way herself,asking for 'advice'-now we see a view from the receiving end of these behaviours(not that im suggesting its same family) but this may help both ages see how all this animosity makes others feel? No theres nothing to suggest youve done anything wrong,per se,but maybe it is seen as a kind of contest with her parents(to her)but there may be also underlying causes,my DIL used to be a lovely girl,we all liked her&i treat her as same as my own daughters,but gradually over time shes acted more distant and spiteful in some ways,but now i learn shes on been put on some tablets for something(not exactly told what)and shes worse frankly.its caused huge rift between some family members,which i cant comment on much in case i lose my son and grandchildren! She doesnt see her behaviour as causing problems,but i cant use her own parents as a way to point this out as shes not really close with them much either.I think we just have to ride this out Aggy 21,and try be the more mature person in these situations.for the sake of our own 'children'& grandchildren.

My late sister in law was one of the nicest people ever. She always treated everyone/anyone nicely, normally and kindly. This gave whoever was prickly, standoffish, awkward or just plain nasty the opportunity to respond normally and nicely. I learned from her that being nice and normal allows others to be so too. Oh, and it feels better and easier than trying to figure out what’s going on with other folk when they behave oddly or badly.
DiL problems seem to abound and we’ve all tried everything else, this is probably the least harmful strategy we have. Good luck!

I’m sorry you are getting feelings of “heat “ from your DIL .. I agree with the advice given here .. grit your teeth as much as you can and don’t feed the fire as it will give an excuse for blaming you for anything that kicks off
It will take some control but keep your dignity and try as much as is humanly possible to rise above it .. it must hurt i totally understand that .. things change when our babies get married and we have to be adaptable and often gracious when we feel affronted .. but believe
Me .. keep your cool and count to ten ... as long as your son still wants to keep in touch with the grandchildren .. try not to aggravate it all ... keep your head up and rise above ... good luck ...

It’s simple. Talk to your son. Ask him in confidence what the issue is and whether it’s worth trying to speak to his wife about it. Time he started acting like a grown up. He has a mother and a wife and he needs to manage the expectations of both. Can’t believe how many sons on this forum seem to absolve themselves of any relationship management once they get married and have kids. He needs to know you’re upset and he needs to get it sorted.

Hi Aggy, awful situation, it must hurt terribly. I agree with some of the others, don't bend over backwards, in fact back right off and see what happens. "This too will pass" give it all a bit of space and then see what happens, good luck, not your fault. Power play at its best.

You choose your friends. You are stuck with your relatives.
My MIL terrified me. I was sapped of confidence when in her presence. I felt like a small child being judged.
My FIL was benign and genteel. He used to watch how I did things ( badly as nervous of MIL) The only thing we had in common was my H.
They were sociable normal people to others. I found visits torturous.
We just didn’t get on.
Its life. Non of us were/are nasty people, we just don’t get on. It happens.
It was their personalities that stressed me. It was nothing that could be fixed by talking.
I ensured my C had a good relationship with them and was supportive to my H but, when my PIL died all I felt was relief for me and sorrow for H and our C.
Tolerate for sake of your family. Fixed smile. Pre arrange with H when the visit can end.
Create opportunities for your family to visit/interact without you.
Best wishes

Do remember that things cannot be “unsaid”

Our children and their families have their own lives and that is right. I think you should back off a bit and have the gc children over without mum. When the children are old enough have them over to stay and the parents can have a break. But don’t push it.

I am very lucky to have very loving relationships with both my DIL’s so I do feel for you. I don’t know what sort of relationship you have with your son but personally I would be able to speak to either of mine on a one to one basis, and just ask if I had inadvertently done/said something wrong. If it’s a personality clash, I would still want to chat, reiterating that you just want harmony in the family, so a chat on how this is best handled would be the way forward for me. GC would soon pick up on adverse atmospheres as they get older. I wish you well ?

I definitely don’t think you should say anything to your daughter in law about this it will be very tenuous that it doesn’t get twisted round as an accusation You already say you’re son is pulling away and you want to avoid that for sure
Now because we only hear one side of the story can you hand on heart know you have never been annoying, especially with your need to be accepted. Are you sure you ve never ever gone over the top in trying to win her round You describe yourself as a sensitive person and a bit obsessed could it be more than a bit ? there’s is definitely something pissing her off and your son is obviously in agreement with her I would really look long and hard at your own behaviour and I truely don’t mean this to be harsh, but could you be a bit overwhelming ?
I would tone it all down AND definitely no talking about it that will either make her more angry or feel accused
I d not do anything for now let the holiday which you say you think has brought it all to a head become a distant memory then maybe have a friendly coffee with her and talk about anything but your perceived problem If you can have the boys alone or with your husband but then she might feel sidelined so be very careful on that one
Ideally it would be better to talk to the son say you realise there seems pressure when you all meet and what does he think would be best if you can’t do that just sit it out quietly and get on with life with your husband
Sounds as if the holiday was a nice thought but made things worse ...a shame but perhaps everything she finds irritating about you was magnified and in 3D in close quarters for a long weekend
Good luck

As someone who hates confrontation I would be inclined to just accept things the way they are and not try to force a relationship with your DIL or try to analyse why it's the way it is. Asking her to meet up if it's not something you've done before could set alarm bells ringing in her head and may make the situation worse. Continue to have them visit, be pleasant and interested in what she is doing and be thankful that you have regular contact with your grandchildren. If you want to treat them to a holiday let them go on their own. Hopefully as the children grow the tensions will ease and you may end up on a more equal footing so she can relate better to you.

Smileless

It may be down to semantics, but in fairness I don't know if all of those people (yourself included) have been explicitly TOLD their grandchildren are being used as a weapon. It may appear that way, but if you have not been told the reason for the estrangement it boils down to speculation. It's not possible to determine the operation of another person's mind.

@smileless, I wasn't addressing your post. I was speaking to autumnsun's post that said "we actually have had the shit from both ends so to speak"

Being CO of your child's and GC's lives is more than "a bit crappy" and I doubt you'd think it worth it if it happened to you Soontobe.

"*we actually have had the shit from both ends so to speak*"

Yes...I guess that's true. My parents and ils never once thought to consider our needs or ways of wishing we could do things, and we chose to conform to this.

But, if now the other end of the stick is a bit crappy, and it means my own ACs will have freedoms my dh and I never did? Two words:
Worth.
It.

At least to me. I feel proud to offer them what was never even a consideration towards us.

Even if most don't use their children as weapons agnurse some do. You've read and responded to posts from GP's who've been CO of their AC's lives and as a result their GC's lives also.

So you've read at least of some d's.i.l. who do fall into that category.

Yes autumnsun some of us have indeed "had the shit from both ends so to speak" and it doesn't get any shittier than having your GC taken away from you out of spite.