Son in law's temper

agnurse - "I was referring to HurdyGurdy's statement that it would be inappropriate and immature for young parents to stop their children seeing the GPs."

HurdyGurdy said no such thing!

I think it is very scary that we have reached the point in our society where anonymous callers can pick up a phone and denounce anyone whom they perceive as being abusive. That's what happened in the French revolution, but without phones. I don't agree with the advice to say nothing either. It's what families are for and sometimes we have to tackle difficult subjects. There is always a way of stating concerns, and who better than a caring mother figure. Leave third party do-gooders out of it I say. I have been witness to the damage that social services can inflict on families and it is far better for the family to sort it out, unless it is a matter for the police, which it is not in this case.

HurdyGurdy - your description of the way your department operates made my hair stand on end. I'm aware of the move towards phoning parents about whom referrals have been made, asking if they need help and backing out if they decline. I don't want to be confrontational but that's a recipe for disaster. I could list a number of situations where agencies have expressed significant concerns about the welfare of children and that phone call has resulted in no further action. It isn't an assessment model, its a keeping our work load low so we can possibly get through the week without growing in new referrals model.
agnurse, you're repeated advice to 'keep out of it and phone social services if you're concerned about abuse' is just not helpful. Life and family relationships aren't so black and white. Most of us would want to try and talk things through with our adult children without interfering. The poster who said that on reflection she wishes she had been more direct won't be on her own in that.

MissA you do make me laugh

We have no real idea from the OP if this father is 'abusing' his children by constantly shouting and that the atmosphere in the house is toxic, or, if he comes home after a stressful day, gets impatient with them if they are naughty or rude. It may have happened on a couple of occasions when the OP was there which she found distressing.

He and my daughter say it is none of my business
Really, the OP's DD needs to learn to stand up for herself and tell him that his behaviour is not acceptable.
Even the most tolerant of parents can reach their limits sometimes.

I was in my 30s!

MissAdventure, I'm sorry, but I think your mum was way out of line to speak to you like that. I can see putting a child on a healthy diet if one thinks they're getting chunky, especially if one emphasizes the health aspects and not the "looks" issue. But insulting one's child? No, I don't think so.

Hearing from social service might, indeed, make sil angrier. But if they thought he was abusing the boys, they would very likely require him to take anger management classes. That might not solve his issues completely, but it might make him rethink his behavior a little.

But as has been said, "emotional abuse" is hard to prove. And there's no doubt in my mind that "taking it out" on the kids when he's upset with himself is emotional abuse, at least, if it happens often, which it sounds like it does. (I'm saying "emotional abuse" because the op didn't mention anything physical.)

So I agree with those who say the best thing is to show your gc as much love as you can Confused. And praise them for all their good traits - remind them that they are good people, too. Also, I agree with the idea of removing them from the scene, if you can, when sil is having a fit.

As for supporting DD when she's in tears, that doesn't have to mean speaking up to sil. That only prompts her to stand by him and turn on you. What she would probably prefer is a hug and a listening ear. And, of course, please be there for her and the kids with open arms if she decided to leave him.

After having two daughters who both had bad first marriages, I certainly would not hold my tongue now! One son-in-law was a serial womaniser. But we didn't quite believe my daughter, thinking she must be imagining it, or exaggerating. We never interfered, or confronted him. (Oh, if only I could turn the clock back!)

The other son-in-law was an alcoholic, who was always insulting and nasty to my daughter - but I just stood back, hoping everything would turn out OK (because she loved him). (And, I think, because I was too wimpy and didn't want to cause a row.)

They both ditched these men (eventually) and luckily have now married two lovely, faithful, sober, sons-in-law.

But I heartily regret my standing back, and biting my tongue - which equated to not supporting my daughters. Never again!

Of course, we all learn from our experiences.

If I were in Confused2's place I would certainly speak up and tell this son-in-law that his behaviour is unacceptable. Of course, she has to be prepared for her daughter's reaction. But I think we have to tell the truth, at the time, and not be frightened by the consequences.

There’s nothing worse than that “could’ve, would’ve, should’ve” feeling...

Well I have given up expecting a reply to a perfectly reasonable , but slightly challenging, question agnurse !!!

Sorry to change the subject and each to his own, but the word hubby in every sentence is really getting on my pip


My kid has a total of 9 birth and step-grandparents
FIL basically said that my kid and I were fat
Yeah, I should imagine with that number of grandparents there is bound to be one who comments on your weights.
[sigh]

Social services certainly do knock on the door when any complaint is made.My neighbour had them turn up at her home after she was accused of neglecting her GD.It was total nonsense ,the work of another neighbour who had a grudge but the poor gran was devastated to be accused .Her GD is the most cared for ,well looked after child,one look at her and her relationship with her GP and the social worker said it was obvious it was a malicious call.
There were others in the street targetted by the same person and all had visits.Sadly the anonimity thing meant they got away with their malicious behaviour .All the families involved knew who it was because they had all had issues with her in the recent past..
We later found out she had done the same thing in her last street too .

Sorry to change the subject and each to his own, but the word hubby in every sentence is really getting on my pip

There's a lot of backstory, probably too much to go into here.

The point is, FIL is always about FIL. Not about anybody else. It was a major reason his and MIL's marriage broke down. He displays a number of narcissistic traits. He basically wrote Hubby off for being autistic and effectively not being "the son he wanted".

I think the fact that my SIL (BIL's wife) can't stand him either says a lot about his character. I can't speak for everyone, but I look for patterns. If 2 of your 3 CIL have a problem with you, it's a good bet that you might be the problem. (I don't know if he's ever met SIL's partner - SIL is estranged or on LC from the rest of the family.)

It made me get up off the floor rather quickly!

Chewbacca

Excellent point! What I meant to say was that it's not true that I don't trust anyone other than Hubby and me to be around our children.

Hubby and I are certainly not child molesters!!!

That must have scarred you for life MissA! Ring social services immediately!

I don't think that anyone other than me and Hubby is a child molester

Are you sure that's what you meant to say agnurse? Surely not?

My mum often commented on my weight.
Me - sitting cross legged on the floor.
Mum - "Do you have to sit like that? You look like Buddha!"

You can understand why Hubby and I aren't fans of FIL.

My point is, people often have very good reasons not to allow their children around the GPs.

I don't think that anyone other than me and Hubby is a child molester. My kid has a total of 9 birth and step-grandparents, 8 living (her maternal grandmother passed away when she was 3). We visit my parents periodically, we have contact with MIL and SFIL who are lovely, and she has contact with her maternal grandfather and stepfather's parents as well.

I was referring to HurdyGurdy's statement that it would be inappropriate and immature for young parents to stop their children seeing the GPs.

FIL basically said that my kid and I were fat and that my having a chronic disease that affects weight (PCOS) was nothing more than an excuse.

FIL lived in our second home rent-free for several months, meaning that we had to pay TWO mortgages and couldn't rent that home out. He had discussed the possibility of purchasing it from us, then backtracked on that and left the area rather abruptly.

Thanks for the clarification HurdyGurdy, but i still think that, in the situation that the OP has presented, it would be inappropriate to involve social services and she has already staged that she has no intention of doing so.

Like you MissA I'm baffled by the significance of parental sexual abuse that agnurse refers to LOUDLY.

Confused - does he have trouble with relationships 'in general' by any chance? He sounds just like my ADD throwing tantrums like a 3 year old does, screaming, crying and the like ... I had a very stressful pregnancy with her (I found out my Dad had terminal cancer he day after I found out I was having a baby and lost my Dad at 7 months and tried to resuscitate a 39 yr old friend and failed sadly at 8 months pregnant) and I swear it has had an adverse effect on her Mental Health. After doing some research we are (and she is .... ) sure she has a Borderline Personality Disorder, which is very difficult to treat, and she is in a 'queue' to see a Psychiatrist to hopefully get a diagnosis which may actually get her some help! In the meantime she has major anxieties about abandonment in particular, great difficulties with relationships with anyone, severe depression, self harming and suicidal behaviours to deal with - it is awful for us all ......

Does he take all of his disappointments out on his children?(OP) if so he needs to be persuaded to confront his own behaviour & understand the reasons for it & accept that it is wrong to perpetuate undesirable parenting.