Severe punishment for unknown underage sex.

Jane 10 - I feel much the same way about your tedious repetition of the same word, as your only contribution, Seriously - if the thread bores you that much, stay off it.

I just don't know what to think here.

If we assume that the child could pass for 19 with enough make up and appropriate clothing, are we saying that males should not enter into any kind of a relationship with females without having sight of birth certificates or passports to prove the female is old enough to embark on the relationship?

Does anyone remember Mandy Smith, the 13 year old who "dated" Rolling Stone Bill Wyman. I don't think anyone would have questioned her age if we had been told she was 18 or 19 years old. (Incidentally, in this area a couple of years ago, the local police Facebook page regularly posted a photograph of a 14 year old girl who regularly went missing, with an appeal for anyone who knew where she was to contact them. Every single time this girl's photograph was published the comments were always "no way is she 14, she looks in her 20s at least". So yes, young teenagers can be mistaken for much older teenagers.)

However, the fact that this child had signed herself up to a dating app with a profile appropriate to the app gives me a tiny amount of sympathy for the male.

That the child has a social worker involved, has had previous episodes of going missing, and has a parent who feels she has to sleep downstairs to stop her daughter leaving the house at night (albeit unsuccessfully) leads me to think that this child is already in the throes of being groomed and at risk of CSE (by others, not by the man in this particular incident).

However, the actions of the male when he had the girl in his flat, of taking images of her and then distributing them with the very sleazy way he described her, loses any sympathy I had. I can maybe forgive him for accepting her saying she was 19 (why 19, and not 16, which is the "legal age", I wonder, and which she would be more likely to pass for), but I cannot possibly forgive his unacceptable behaviour .

Why are you so bored with this, Jane?

Yawn

Foxy I also think that even if tall & with breasts a 12 year olds face , even with make up is child like. It seems such a coincidence that this 12 yr old managed to look so mature that close up she fooled a adult man.

KateF I am sitting on the fence, arguing with myself. It is not true that a twelve year old cannot make herself up to look nineteen, however, what about the development of hair on the body, unless she pretends to have had a Brazilian. My great niece, is not twelve until end of July, she is mentally at the right age, however she is 5’5” tall, lovely to look at with long blonde hair. When I saw her dressed for her School disco (no boyfriends on the horizon, she is still ‘young’) she could have easily passed for a teenager, nineteen would have been a stretch, but then she does not wear make up or a lot of it yet. Our assumption is that a twenty seven year old man would be a ‘bit’ more worldly wise perhaps? Certainly someone who is trawling for sex on the Internet, while not all that bright, might not be expecting a twelve year old brat to be posting on it. My heart greaves for a child with her childhood lost. My granddaughters and great nieces with that age range still go to the Panto, Father Christmas train rides, half price sweets at Wilkos. This poor lass, and many more like her, who wouldn’t not give me a thank you for saying that, has long lost the pleasure of being a young child. The trouble with being long retired, one has too much time to pontificate.

And their opinions are based on limited information..as opposed to the judge!

The abuse isn't boring, but the insistence of so many people that their interpretation is the only one to be considered is getting repetitive.

Sorry, that was snippy but I don't find the subject of child abuse boring so reacted too quickly.

If you're bored with it Jane10, maybe stop reading.

Round and round this thread goes!

No doubt, there are cases where men have been fooled into thinking a 15 or 16-year-old girl was 18 or 21 or whatever, and I sympathize with those men. But 12? As another poster said, even if she really looks like a 19-year-old, it's doubtful she sounds like one or consistently acts like one. Plus, his behavior, in general, left a lot to be desired. No sympathy here, I'm afraid.

I am worried about that girl though. What could be going on in her life that she would do this? Is she exceedingly lonely? The victim of sexual abuse by a relative or family friend? Something's not right here, imo, and it goes beyond this man's behavior. I hope CPS looks more deeply into this girl's situation.

momof3, the girls who as adults supported the prosecution of the gangs of (mostly) Asian men who groomed and sexually abused them were not believed, not supported and seen as 'making lifestyle choices' when the fact they were being sexually exploited, given drugs etc was first made known to agencies that should have protected them.
The outcry that followed will have contributed to the fact the child in this case was not dismissed as making lifestyle choices or worse, being the predator in this situation.

It is, of course, deeply concerning that the girl was posting in the way described; there is obviously a back story about this.

We do know that adolescent girls can often, even usually seem older than they are, although I tend to feel that a 12-year-old would find it hard really to convince someone that she was actually 19 – a 14- or 15-year-old could probably do it, if she was careful. However, she is 12 years old and, de facto, a victim because she cannot legally give consent. He is an adult man who apparently likes to have sex with much younger girls and is responsible for his actions.

Got it in one momof3.
The post that says this child groomed a grown man. And that he wouldn't be able to resist is awful.

I’m wondering if the guy involved had been an Asian Muslim man whether some of the responses on this thread would be the same.

Well I know how I would react if some sleazebag twice my 13 year old 's age had behaved like this towards her .I would be getting locked up for it!! There is NO excuse for any adult trolling for very young girls .I do know some girls look older and I also know about the peer pressure in some groups to have sex,Doesn't mean she was either physically or mentall or emotionally ready for the experience and he should be punished .

I think that guy could find himself answering quite a number of different charges of inappropriate behaviour.

If it is true that he did not realise that she was under-age, he did not knowingly victimise her, though he is technically guilty. If he did realise it but ignored that fact, then he is guilty in reality as well as technically. That is what was being debated. A conclusion was reached, and the judge then delivered a sentence based on the verdict and on his own estimate of how guilty the man was, within that verdict.

We could argue till the cows come home over our various interpretations of the parts of the case that we have heard, in the light of our own history and experience of life, but the verdict has been given and sentencing passed.

Yawn

As a 12 year old child unable to consent yes she is “a victim”

Are you having trouble?
May I help?

Trying again.

The press would be in a whole pile of trouble if they published the name of that child who is now "a victim. "

Are there two versions of this thread?

That man is responsible for the assault on the child. No exuses. He is twice her age.