Love, whatever that is?

Lots of good advice already. just wanted to support the idea of Love as Action. A friend of mine was really neglected by her husband but put up with it because "I know he loves me, really ... " How did she know? Because occasionally he would tell her. Didn't stop him walking all over her. I didn't get a bunch of flowers on Valentine's Day but every day of the year I get a morning cuppa in bed - to me, that is being cared for; that is love.

Every avenue should be explored when children are involved, relationship counselling etc However life is far too short to be unhappy. I’ve been married twice and in the end felt so alone in both relationships, I jumped ship, both for very different reasons. Some men are incapable of empathy, will not listen to your concerns and think that only their feelings matter. I experienced many sincere apologies and it wasn’t till I started writing incidents down in my diary, that I saw over the years the constant repetition of events. Even number2 was speechless in Court when he was given the transcript of his drunken behaviour. Most women do so much to keep peace and harmony in the home and it’s often at the expense of our own sanity. Just advise her to be true to herself and find peace and happiness in life, and just be there for her whatever she decides.

You can only remind her that there's no such thing as a perfect marriage, we all have our ups and downs. It should be equal but there'll be times when it feels anything but.
Everyday life is made up of lots of little things, it's how we respond to them that makes the difference. Many of us are discontented with life, make sure you're swiping at the right target ifswim, you should after all both be on the same side.

Ooh thank you all, the fog has cleared.
When I meet dd tomorrow, whatever her decision, go or stay, my support will be practical rather than emotional.
Future-proof plan of action, (as much as you can without a crystal ball), to protect her and dgd.
And lots of tea/wine!

I am not sure that the OP should be the one giving the advice. Advice might be needed, but not from her directly.

It's all about weighing up the good parts of a relationship against the less good bits and the balance between them and that is a very individual thing. We would all draw the line in different places but my line is about the 70:30 ratio. If the relationship is good for about 70% of the time it's probably a stayer.

No relationship is perfect or great 100% of the time. I read a quote recently that said that people who claim their relationship is perfect are often good liars.

Cakehunter, my thoughts are with you and your daughter. It is so hard to see your children in pain. ?

If they both still love each other and want it to work I would advise counselling rather than advice from others. If love is not there for either partner then part sooner rather than later. My daughter said she would have preferred her dad and I to have split up much earlier. On reflection she is right. It would have been better for everyone.

grannyactivist and also if people put as much care in to choosing their partner as they do to choosing a car to buy.

For quite a number of the failed marriages I have seen the roots of the breakdown were there from the beginning, but one of the couple, usually the woman, was too besotted to see what those outside could see, or were convinced that once they were married everything would be different.

I think if people took care of their marriages in the same way they do their cars there wouldn't be so many divorces. Having a regular MOT (marriage encounter/enrichment weekends), keeping it well oiled (paying compliments speaking positively about each other), topping up with fuel etc. (investing in the marriage) keeping the spark going - I'm not the best at allegory, but you get my drift.

I am married to a wonderful man, but he's not perfect and no more am I. We give time, energy and effort to our relationship and in doing so we have weathered, by pulling together, some really dark and difficult times.

Your op asks if she should face the inevitable. If she feels it is inevitable then she should get out rather than live in misery until the end.

Much better for her to talk to you, for you to listen and back what she decides.

For what its worth I agree with Sodapop.
Only to add keep on assuring her you will support either decision.
Although I read you have already made up your mind !(?)
Don't be frustrated with what ever she decides.

Just to point out I took my mother into my confidence then didn't do as she would have wished, and the pressure and arguments that followed divided the family against me I'm afraid.

We none of us know the future.
Good luck

I would advise her to let the dust settle a bit and not make any decisions whilst she is upset and emotional.
Like everyone else tolerance and compromise are high on my list, but not so much when I was younger. Some things one can live with others are a problem, how much are you willing to compromise for the sake of the children or security.
Maybe a list of pros and cons. Try not to sway her either way cakehunter it could come back and bite you.

I think it depends on what has been going on cakehunter

There are many reasons to get out and end a marriage/relationship. Is she being abused in any way, or does her partner behave in hurtful ways? Have they discussed their relationship? You say it's 'mostly OK'?

We don't really know the circumstances. Has the love died? Is she tired of him?

If a marriage is beyond saving, if you have tried and talked yet the same hurtful circumstances exist, and respect for each other has gone, it's probably best to end it.

Like many women, I stayed, hoping things would get better. I lost almost ten years of my life and my misery affected me and my children. It took courage to get a divorce and I felt shattered by it all. Our awful marriage affected my self-esteem and confidence, but eventually, life becomes happier and easier. Being alone is much better than being in a bad relationship - and for the children of that relationship too.

Oh yes HildaW it would be so much easier if we could see inside people's hearts and minds. It's the grey areas that are tricky.

Yes it sounds like we've all come through our difficult times and we're looking back at our decisions from a calmer, reasoned and balanced standpoint.
But my dd is at that emotional stage, when it's all hurtful and confusing, "go or stay".
I want to shout go,run, you deserve to be loved. Yet all of the above is true, and should I advise caution?
I might not know the answers but does anyone feel they asked the right questions in similar situation.
I'm seeing her on Saturday, so will be face to face.

Can remember reading somewhere that Love is about never deliberately hurting the other person. We might do it by mistake, that's quite different but if someone knows something will hurt but still does it, you have to ask yourself if that really is love.

There's more than one kind of love. imo the best is the love that builds slowly over the years. But usually built on the other kinds eg passion, mutual interests, having children together etc.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSF8l_Yh_gY

I think you have to tolerate the others little foibles and learn to accept things about them that are mildly annoying. Annoyances aren't grounds for divorce. I'd say a loving relationship grows when you have a little space between you, if you both get some alone time when you do whatever it is that pleases you.

You also have to have a similar outlook and have similar aspirations and do nice and kindly things for each other. I hate feeling I am being taken for granted - so to avoid that we plan an outing or a special meal at home or even a break in our day for a coffee out at a cafe or garden centre - and there are no distractions and we can talk and focus on each other. In our 60s now, retired and both with marriages behind us, and children grown up, we can go out together and enjoy each others company. You have to make time for each other, whatever your age, if you can.

I'd say do it while you can. For us, holding hands as we walk and laughing at the same things tends to keep our bond strong. We may have a spat but we let that blow over and neither of us sulks.

There are no rules. There are no quick fixes. No simple solutions. One person's perfect partner is someone else's idea of a nightmare.

Perhaps, one rule might be that if one of the partnership has decided they want out.There is little the other partner can do. If the outer puts conditions on staying, these are usually onerous and should be rejected.

Compromises require both sides to want to compromise and if someone has said they are leaving or has gone, compromise is a non-starter.

It is about the balance, too much compromising ends to resentfulness and that's a slippery slope to loss of respect.
Modern relationships are so different to the ones our parents coped with/endured. My Mother would have had real grounds to leave my father but economics and social pressures kept her tied. Years later I find myself thinking about my marriage. Its had a few wobbles mainly from me during that dire menopause/midlife time when so much is in a state of flux. I'm so glad I held on though. We respect each other, trust each other and share so many views about our family and the world in general. However we are different in some ways but I really feel its an equal relationship, we both put in as much as the other.
That I think is the defining factor - its not the actual elements, its how evenly shared it is. If one partner is having to work much harder, or is forever feeling unhappy AND the other person chooses to ignore that, then there are real problems that might never be solved.

It's all about balance, isn't it? If one person is doing most of the compromising in order to feel loved, I see that as a problem. I have been that compromising person and in the end I became a doormat and was walked all over.