relatives with mental health problems

Hard to give answers to vague questions. As others have said MH problems cover such a wide spectrum and circumstances vary so much within, it is hard to give any kind of informative advice.

Broadly speaking, I would agree that dealing with someone with severe MH issues does impact on other family and relationships. Just how much you, individually, let it impact really depends on just how close to it you are?

IF, you are just worried about somebody else having to deal - you can't really do much other than be there to listen. They may well take out THEIR frustrations on other people? I am assuming all avenues of professional help have been explored?

If YOU are having to deal and cannot manage any more then it is not wrong to admit you can't cope imo. It may be hard to walk away and you may feel guilty but you have to consider yourself and other family members too.

But as I say that is generalising way too much and I can only hope you find the answers you are looking for Cabbie21.

I think some of what I am about to say has been said by others slightly differently.

You are carrying a lot of baggage (resentment?) from your childhood which is, almost certainly, affecting your judgement.

Walking away from some mental health issues might be insensitive and cruel, in others it might well be the best thing to do. You need expert advice, perhaps one of the charities specialising in whatever it is.

Please ask yourself if the person is ill because they can't help it, or not. I know it is generally assumed no one can help being mentally ill but there must be cases which are deemed MH but just self-indulgence. I doubt there are many.

Another question you should ask yourself is 'is there anything I can do to help?' If the answer is genuinely 'no' there give it no further thought. However, I suspect it is not that simple or you wouldn't be asking.

It is hard to give much advice when we don't know what the problem is. Perhaps you should ask yourself if you have come on Gn to get confirmation of a decision you have already made?

Hope this helps you to work it out.

It is absolutely not horrible to give up if you have exhausted all other options. Sometimes it truly is a put your own oxygen mask on first type of situation.

It’s extremely unfair that some people end up turning everything into something about them. It’s OK to not invite everybody to everything. It’s ok to occasionally put yourself first.

It is not healthy to martyr yourself to someone else’s moods or tantrums or health problems.

Cabbie If you didn’t have a holiday, stopped doing things you enjoy you couldn’t get your relative into any hospital sooner .

I know I could not have supported a relative as I did my daughter

I appreciate all who have taken the time to comment, some sharing some really difficult situations. There is not one easy answer, especially when MH services are so overstretched and waiting times so long.
This relative has had to wait four years to get the referral she needed, and now needs something more in depth. The funding has been agreed but there just aren’t the places. She is desperately ill and threatening suicide. She has such a long road to recovery and slim hope of getting any normal sort of life. And there are so many people in this position around the country.
It feels churlish of me to get on with my own life, booking a holiday, filling my time with things I enjoy doing, but there is nothing I can do to help. I have to be a survivor.

So true what RoseCarmel wrote re: physical and mental ill health. She used the comparison of a runny nose. Have a read of her post.

My comment is this: someone with a mental ill health label may very simply be someone very sensible and very caring who has been trapped with a very 'difficult' person or persons over many, many years even a lifetime. The person with the label may have sort medical help for theirself because the 'difficult' person was having a detrimental effect on the mental state of the sensible, caring one and on any CHILDREN living with that "difficult" person and the caring, sensible responsible person. And thus the responsible person became labelled not by themselves but by medics and society. That could have been decades ago. But unfortunately labels can and do stick in others minds. The original label may no longer be correct but out in the big bad world ignorance, prejudice and discrimination are still rife and slow to die doing incredible harm to innocent people and their innocent loved ones. Medics don't get everything right all the time and some are not as good at their jobs as they should be. And what may have been diagnosed decades ago may no longer apply and besides the "labelled" may have learnt long ago how to function and cope.
Besides mental ill health does NOT make one a criminal.
Anyone remember innocent unless proven guilty?

Several in my family. As the saying goes, Mental Illness doesn not 'run' in my family, it strolls through getting to know everybody!
Nephew has bipolar and suffers from psychotic episodes. It has caused a lot of distress and worry when he is 'on one'. My daughters are both on long term medication. One for Anxiety - she is a completely different person when unmedicated. Complete fight or flight mode. Fight with the family and flight with life in general. Medicated she is a loving wife and mother who copes superbly well. Younger daughter has clinical depression. She is on strong drugs, that give her terrible withdrawal symptoms. Her depression takes the form of feeling a failure, missing out, everyone has is better etc. She is highly strung and a victim of the modern age regarding how she percieves everyone else's life. She sets impossibly high standards for herself and fails to meet them. She is also impulsive. She struggles to hold down a job, but she is trying to make a success of working for herself and is doing well. She is also and excellent mum to her 3 year old. Hormone definitely effect her as well. She is probably the reason for my grey hairs, as I am never sure when she is going to 'crash' and need support. You live on a knife edge. I adore my girls, but it takes it's toll. I could nbever walk away.

Cabbie21 If I've read your posts correctly you are in the unenviable position of watching someone you care about support their loved one with a MH condition.

In many cases "yes" mental illness can dominate family life and leave some family members without the recognition, value or care they need. Not always but this can be the case and sadly often is.

If you are watching someone outside of your home caring for a loved one with MH problems you may - and I stress - may be - re-experiencing some of the thoughts and feeling you had when you and your parents were in that situation.

If so it is not unknown for some of the effects to be clearer when seen in others than when we are selves are "IN" the situation. When we are 'in' the situation we are doing our best to manage life.

When we observe others in similar situations we may get a better understanding of just how hard those times were for all involved.

That process can bring up lots of pain, loss, anger, better understanding, kinder thoughts, anything really. Those thoughts and feeling can leave us feeling a bit off balance.

Those feelings aren't uncommon for people in your position and to feel unsure of what to do about our own internal process is fairly normal in these circumstances.

In addition to dealing with our own thoughts and feeling from our past we still have to navigating our relationship with the person who is the carer. Then there is taking care of ourselves yet giving support. So lots of working out thoughts and feeling to find a balanced way to deal with where you yourself are at right now.

All that's not easy, please be kind to yourself.

You seems to be doing an OK job of finding your way through but if you feel counselling/therapy will help and you are able to access it I'm sure you'll benefit from the process.

I guess this will have brought up a lot of memories and emotions about how life was living with your sister. I can imagine it’s really upsetting to see someone else who you think might be going through what you yourself endured. You don’t say what the mental health problem is, but there are a lot of voluntary organisations which deal with specific mental health problems and can offer information, support and sometimes respite for the families of those affected. What is most important (and sometimes most difficult) is acknowledging the problem and reaching out for help. Sadly, there are still many cultural and societal taboos around mental health problems and it can be hard for the careers of those affected to ask for the help and support they need.

As previously stated a lot depends on the actual form the mental illhealth takes. It's hard to walk away from someone who hammers on your door continually or who sends fire engines or ambulances to your house! We often felt that it was us who suffered from our family member's mental illness in that he was quite happy and sure he was right but it was always us who had to deal with the problems that arose. We were 100% accurate in judging when he'd stopped his meds. Unfortunately the local mental health team wouldn't believe us until there had been another incident.
All over now.

Cabbie21 I do ,feel free to message me .

Big difference between walking away from a friend and walking away from your child.

May I suggest that, rather than being detached, you focus on making rational, objective decisions about specific actions and then stick to what you decide.

If you can't accede to a request then don't do it but decline with a good, if fabricated, excuse. Only do things which you know you can manage and don't feel guilty about making these choices; realise that it is being reasonable.

This is the only way, I think, which will preserve your sanity.

Good luck. I hope things settle to a new, manageable normal.

Cabbie21 I have known one of my AD friend since she was 4yrs. Her MH issues were apparent as a child ad became more so as an adult and mother. I now only have occasional contact with her, usually during or after an 'incident' but my stress levels go through the roof, both for her and for my daughter who bears the brunt of supporting her, and her family, at these times.
Separately, I had to walk away from a good friend when her MH deteriated. After 4 years of almost 24/7 contact, including constant phone calls, often after mixing her medication and alcohol, the loss of her mother then her disabled brother within the same year, she had a major breakdown that resulted in her finally getting the help and support she needed, although her daughter went into care.
We now meet for the occasional coffee and chat.
Sometimes I feel that, because the MH professionals are so overworked, they feel that they are able to practically ignore someone who has strong support network, stepping in only when that breaks down. (IMO).
It takes a strong person to walk away and let trained people take over.

I think that a lot depends on the kind of illness. It is a lot different dealing with someone with depression than someone with schizophrenia.
I have had depression and anxiety to the extent that I was hospitalised for a couple of weeks. I have not had serious depression for some time mainly because I find retirement relaxing and because I recognising the signs that it is starting and can fend it off. Anxiety is more difficult and I have to force myself to let things go.
I don't have anyone in the family with a psychotic illness but have learnt a lot from dealing with my neighbour who I initially tried to help but that just meant that she would try to get into my flat at 3 am when she had a problem so I have had to be harsh with her to enable the rest of us to have a livable life. Her sister is the most involved with her when she gets involved with the police or smashes up her flat and it must be very difficult for her although she seems to have a lot of the same characteristics (like thinking it is reasonable to press my buzzer continually from 6 am).
There are treatments for depression which help over time for many people but it is not easy to be around people with depression. I think that I am better on my own.
With regard to your question about the focus being on the person with mental illness, that is one of the things that I find difficult. My schizophrenic neighbours next door neighbours are a couple in their 90s and late 80s. The woman living above her is 87 and is recovering from a serious operation.
Last time I tried to get the Council to do something about us being woken up through the night I said in my email 'I know that their is only one person in this block that you think that matters but she is not the most vulnerable person here, her 90 year old neighbour is and although you don't care about him, a court will if we have to take the Council to court'. It did finally produce some sort of response from them (which was to put up a lock box so that she didn't buzz us through the night, but they didn't show her how to use it or put a key in it so that was a big help!).
I think that selfishness seems to be one of the symptoms of many forms of mental illness but it is understandable in a way. My neighbour finds the best way to drown out the voices is to scream or to shout at them. It is difficult because it is the only thing that works for her and personally I can cope with that as long as I can sleep but I am not next door to it. Her selfcentredness makes it impossible to reach any sort of accommodation with her so that she knows what we can and can't cope with. She just thinks that we are against her. I get fed up with thinking about it and having to deal with it. She thinks that she is the centre of everything but I don't want her to be the centre of my life. We can only cope with it because she is in hospital as often as she is here but we always know she is coming back. Her sister won't have her at her home because she has children but she has no sympathy for our situation.
You have to find a way to distance yourself. She knows that she cannot go to her mother's house unless she is invited and she will generally obey that. The fact that people have an illness does not mean that they cannot be given boundaries and that they will not understand them -although, again, depressive illnesses have to be handled very differently when something that seems like rejection could be dangerous.
Care in the community does not mean that the community is given any information or knowledge or support, but it will be blamed when things go wrong.

Many thanks for all the messages of support and comments.
Fortunately for me now, my sister is looked after.
In the current situation I am not the person most closely affected, and can take no responsibility in the situation, which relieves me of that burden of worry, but I have to see the effect it is having on the main carer, and the knock- on effect on me. Yes, I would like to find someone appropriate to talk to. Meanwhile, I am concentrating on holding it together and ensuring I do things I want/ need to do for myself.

Drug addiction is a MH illness and it is well known the only way to survive the issues a family member can bring with the illness is to basically detach from the relationship. Alcoholism is another MH problem. Drug addiction can be stopped almost immediately with no harmful effects to the person , alcoholism is totally different and has to be managed medically and with supervision. Using those two examples to highlight there are so many different MH illnesses that would seem to take over a family's life but they need to be dealt with differently to achieve any worthwhile outcome. That's the horrendous problem with MH illnesses they are all different.

A person with mental illness can’t make a calm, reasonable decision to refuse support , for example , a person with bi polar when on a high think they can sort out the worlds problems , when on a low they can find deciding if they want to eat too difficult a decision

My dear grandma suffered all her life with MH problems. This was caused by her mother dying when she was an infant. I believe she craved was love which she had not had as a child. As a family who lacked understanding, we did not give her enough. She needed constantly to be in the company of loved-ones but spent too much time on her own. I was too young to understand and now it's too late. My advice is always be there with a hug and to listen even though it can be very hard. Don't ever give up on anybody who needs you. This has been the lesson I have learned.

Yes. DH was wrongly diagnosed with Clinical Depression for many years. It turned out he is Bi-Polar. It all came out rather badly & he was in a home for 6 weeks.
He is OK on medication now but I can always tell if he is in an 'up' or a 'down' period.
He does take his medication but I fear the day he may decide he doesn't need it. Luckily his doctors will speak to me even though I am not at the same practice.
Believe me I know how wearing it is & I feel for you. TALK to good friends. they will surprise you with their support.

PS: no it's not totally horrible to "give up" though you will feel it. Some may say that it is. If the person doesnt want help then sometimes we have to walk away for our own self preservation

Plus continuing to help when they dont want it is enabling. If you step out they may just find there own rock bottom and go find the help they need themselves.

They are responsible for themselves as an adult. Some people just want to live in there health, in this case, health problems

We/I am responsible for me! Consider how hard it is change your own self. Then you will understand why you cant change/help someone else unless they want it. I have had to learn that in therapy as I used to be a rescuer.

Yes I too have mental health issues granted more managed today than they manage me. Its taken years of recovery and alot of intermittent specialised therapy with some usual type therapy.

My 2nd son has bipolar. I suggest you look to see if there is local groups to you that support the carer type role

You need to look after you now. You can't help the person unless they want help. The help needs to come from the appropriate medical and service agencies

It sounds to me as if you need to get your own help as you have been worn down by the years of it all. Sounds as if you need support with your own stuff from the past, new coping tools and how to set boundaries with them.

Good luck

Cabbie - this is a really painful and difficult situation. Have you thought about finding someone - maybe a counsellor - outside the situation, who you could talk to. It sounds as if you really need support - as any of us do, when life brings really difficult and painful situations our way. If you have a friend who is good at listening and understanding, talking to them could be a good beginning.

I understand Cabbie I don’t know the answer, doubt there is one

No, Anniebach, they can’t. But what about their other children or other close family members, who have to recede into the background?