only daughter distanced herself and tgecwholecfamily followed suit.

Smileless…..Thanks!!

My sincere apologies Namsnanny the second paragraph of my last post was in response to Hithere not you.

Second paragraph to Namsnanny

Excellent post in response to Hithere Namsnanny.

Rather cynically I can't help but wonder if you were expecting a lot of responses from EP's and EGP's supporting the GP's who so irresponsibly fed their GD too much fruit. Perhaps you thought that would happen because those of us who are estranged must be so because we were such lousy parents and are such lousy grand parents.

Namsnanny

I agree, I didn’t trust my instincts enough, I was a far better and natural mother to my other two, I do feel sad for my first born sometimes, also for myself, because I could have enjoyed her a lot more

The only advice you should give her , is, for her to speak to Citizens Advice , or a solicitor. ( or even the Samaritans.
You cannot know all the ins & outs of the situation & are not in a position to decide what all the facts are.
You can be supportive & a listening ear,but leave it to that.

amsnanny yes "partner whose influence isn't as positive or helpful as it might be" is a good description and cannot just be dismissed as ACs "who need to stand up to..." et c when under those influences, probably whilst dealing with many other pressures! Those who have not watched this happening may not get the nuances and subtleties of these situations!

Sara65...I think back over the time I had my first child. Sometimes a vivid memory will bring me close to tears, because now I know I would do it all differently if I could!

It isn't that I did things so badly, but with the experience and understanding I feel I now have, I think I would make better choices, for all of us.

Hetty58....
Your right when you say problems go back generations.
How delicate human relationships are, add in a bad choice of partner who's influence isn't as positive or helpful as could be, and then anything can happen.

Sara65, - I was firmly told off for kissing my firstborn. Mum said it was unhygienic!

Hetty

I was brought up in a family where no affection was ever shown, no hugs, no compliments no terms of endearment .
When my oldest child was born, I found it difficult to be natural with her, I felt embarrassed if my parents were around to show her affection.
Luckily I did get over it, and gave in to my natural tendency to shower my children, now grandchildren with kisses, but I do sometimes feel sad for that little baby I held at arms length

Namsnanny, well said and very wise.

I know a lady who had an unhappy early childhood (her mother couldn't cope) and was brought up by various aunts and cousins, some good, some bad.

She was not a good mother herself, with no example to follow, few positive memories and little support. She's a brilliant grandmother, though, and her own children (although they have mixed feelings) keep in close contact as they recognise the reasons behind her difficulties and are fond of their father. He was always working as they grew up, a good provider but distant from family life.

Where could you pin the blame (not that you should) in her situation? The problems go back for generations. We are so lucky, those of us who had OK or good parents. We find it possible, even easy to do the right thing or react the right way with our kids.

Hithere…...You ask what GN thinks of the fruit post?

What do you think most people are going to say? Any fair minded person, given the scenario as you have explained it is going to be sympathetic towards the parents and gchild. How could they not?

Be they Gparents, foster parents, parents or just baby sitters!

More to the point is how representative of Gparents behaviour is this?

Individual experiences such as these are not 'normal' examples of Gparents behaviour.

I could give an account of a family who's mother and father were so engrossed in their mutual hatred that it blinded them to the effects it had on their children growing up in such an atmosphere.

The Grandparents on one side felt very strongly about this and tried to support the couple and the gchildren. They had perspective from the outside and could see just how damaging this behaviour was to the gc.

But were deliberately stopped from seeing the gchildren.
The reason given? The children were disruptive after they had visited them.
Of course they were disruptive, they were leaving behind a happier calmer environment to go back to the misery of living in a emotional pressure cooker!

But the couple, blind to anything other than their situation, let it be known that the GP's didn't follow their 'rules'. A half truth, a misrepresentation of the facts.

The other set of GP didn't live that close so didn't see the disfunction of the couple.
They were told negative things about their inlaws and colluded with the couple in thinking the inlaws were causing trouble in the family.

Soon, it was easier for the couple to go nc rather than face the shame that they were less invested in their own children than they were in playing mind games with each other.
What made it even easier was they couldn't accept that their own parents were more capable at that point in time, of being better carers of the gc. So for the couple to be comfortable in their self imposed lie, the gps had to go.

Forget the gps feelings, think of the desolation of the children.
No release valve anymore. No place to recover.
Denied the knowledge that the world is bigger than just mum and dad, and that love comes from all kinds of people.

Just because your a parent doesn't mean you always know what's best for your child, and just because your a gp who does things differently, doesn't mean you are hostile towards the ACs.

Maybe think outside the box of your personal frame work now and again?

Namsnanny, the confused question, thanks to asking. That people remember things differently means different experiences happened to them. Some are NC, others rug sweep. Simple.

Really Norah, what ever made you think your explanation was necessary?

Hetty......You and your siblings, all remember differing versions your upbringing.
So how do you know your version is the correct one and your sisters (or brothers) isn't?
I'm not for one minute disbelieving your perspective as you have stated it.
It's just that there are many instances of AC's claiming one thing and GP's claiming the opposite.

How do any of us know?
How many of us start second guessing ourselves.
How many convince themselves a fairy tale is the truth or vice versa?

No Norah I did understand the term FOG, I merely demonstrated that it is equally applicable to EP's and GP's as it is to estranging AC.

When children become adults their relationship with their parents is a two way street. AC don't have the monopoly on experiencing feelings of fear, obligation and guilt.

Pantglas1, yes, not a given that everyone will agree. In Peonyrose post it does appear the whole family agree. Smoke directs to fire, something is wrong coloured in the picture painted.

Be a supportive friend, distract her kindly with other topics of conversation. She will be hurting badly and just needs friendly support.

Of course Norah, as do their children.....and therein lies the problem for an awful lot of adults who go NC. They don’t appear to like it or agree with it when it happens to them!

Norah I hope what I said didnt suggest that anyone should take bad behaviour, grown child or grandparent!

Madgram77 yes every story is different, clearly there seem to be parallels. A child grown has no need to take bad behaiour, free to see to it ending.

My last comment was in reply to Norah

To avoid any potential misunderstanding of my last comment, I mean that all effective relationships are a two - way street and require give and take....and those two things seem quite often not to be given by one party in the stories here ..that is sometimes by AC and sometimes by Parents/Grandparents, every story is different!

Relationships are a two - way street - which appears not to be the e expectation from all parties reading some of the estrangement stories on here!

Correction: they dont (not the dont) have to put up with FOG any more.