Toddlers. TELL don't ASK...

I've just remembered something my dd told me when she was pregnant. She went to parenting classes where they learnt about different ways to parent. One was very much about giving your child free choice, including asking their permission to change their nappies. How a one-week-old baby was supposed to indicate their decision wasn't clarified. Dd decided that style of parenting wasn't for her.

I think tone of voice is as important as anything. You can tell a child to do things nicely using a please and thank you or you can bark an order. The latter is only used in our house when somebody is refusing to comply with the former! I have always wanted to give my children a voice (something I didn't feel I had) so I give them a choice wherever possible, I can be persuaded to change my mind if they give a rational and reasonable argument and I am usually happy to compromise. Most importantly, they have opportunities to say no when it is something to do with their bodies or personal space. My mother would force us to kiss and hug people, put 3 times the amount of something on the plate if you dared to say you didn't like it and would hit out if you dared to reason with her. I made up my mind that I would never do that to my kids. They need to have a voice.

I think asking children can go to far, we invite over our son and grandchild whose 7 when his mother is at work, the son will say I’ll ring you back when I’ve asked our grandson what he wants to do, so if the grandson says no they don’t come.

I’ve looked after my grandchildren when small and I would say “ lunch time” and put it on the table. Of course I wouldnt give them anything I knew they disliked but otherwise no choice.....the same as I brought my children up. Then ... eat up , we’re off to the park...... or , were into the garden for some weeding. I don’t understand giving little people too much say in what they do and where they go. Now I look after/ fetch youngest from school three times a week.... I tell them what’s for tea... they eat it and I offer them dessert .....I’ve cooked their tea ...I know you like it... ergo; you’re eating it. And they do. I don’t waste time manufacturing pointless arguments with kids. They know it .... and still seem to quite like me .

Meant to add that I once said that my DGD didn’t like her teacher ( most of the class didn’t ) . I might as well have said “ I’m going to school to murder my DGD’s teacher” for the backlash I got . Pathetic .

How on earth do you work that out HM999 ? Because I asked a genuine question about retired/ex teachers ? Makes me dislike them does it ?( notice no one answered) . I have been “accused” of not liking teachers a few times on GN. Usually by those retired teachers who cannot possibly have their “know all” attitude questioned or take a single ounce of criticism

For the record I have a huge amount of respect for some teachers, a fair bit for some, a little bit for others and very little for a few. Infact pretty much like everyone else in every other walk of life . Teachers are not super humans you know !

Bril - 99% of us seem to be on the same page. Choice is fine if its relevant to age. It is NOT appropriate or good for the child if it appears to put them in charge of family decisions. Small choices for small children -
'Shall we have lunch?' NO 'Would you like pasta or soup?' YES.
And never frame something as a question if the child actually has no choice in the matter because that is confusing, frustrating, irritating, too much pressure for the child and just very obviously WRONG. Thanks all.
Now - who is going to explain this to today's parents who are already used to outsourcing decision making to the latest App?????????????

Years ago when my eldest niece was 18 months, she and her parents had been visiting me, it got late, the child was tired and didn't want her shoes and jumper put on when they had to leave.

BIL was cajoling the little one to no avail, she was just too tired. My sister was in a tizzy as they had a train to catch and a ten minute bus ride to the station.

I took the child off BIL's knee, put her shoes on while chatting to her then her jumper. She was so surprised by this that she stopped crying.

Next time I saw them, the little poppet came running to hug me. At some level I think she had just been glad I took matters out of her hands when she was too tired to really understand what her parents wanted her to do.

When did this should we ask or should we not ask become an issue. From my own childhood and then as a parent myself I was never asked or did I ask my own as it became obvious what was 'put in front of you' was liked /disliked you learned. I was never told eat or go without or did I expect this of my children. Of course there were times when there were' like this,don't like this' but never did my own mother or as a mother myself felt we had to offer a 'menu'.

Simple isn’t it?
You keep it positive and it is an option rather than choices never failed me.

Children do need guidance even at that age or its confusing for them. When my lot ask me for something, I say yes or no, no explanations. And they always accept it either way, but when they ask their parents there's always a big discussion and the kids end up grizzling. My GD aged 5 says, 'get me a tissue', so I say 'you get it', and she does. Parents do everything they ask. Its hard bringing up kids now and it was always, but for the parents sanity, I wish they would be the ones in control. It was never this hard for me.

Oh Gillybob, you really don't like teachers, do you?

Drives me mad ! Although not yet at a stage when DGG has a choice - happy days - I despair !
It seems everywhere we go very small children are given option overload. Simply going to a supermarket I hear parents "bribing / bargaining " with their tots - what is that about ?
I have no wish to return to the past when children were seen but not heard but neither do I wish to see confused, upset toddlers in a situation they cannot assimilate as yet.

gilly your youngsters when older will have happy memories of Grandma's morning cafe.

I often stayed with my grandparents during school holidays and was always asked what I wanted for breakfast.

After a sleepover as my DGS's are early risers they have a buffet breakfast of cereals, strawberries, grapes, watermelon etc and a choice of 'healthy' drinks.
They help themselves to what they want to eat.

Also at weekends or holidays they are usually allowed to choose what T shirt, hoodie etc they wish to wear.
Both wear uniform at school and nursery so (imho) having a choice at down time is a good for their development.

On a recent nursery/school non uniform day the boys who are close in age were quibbling over who got to wear the Batman socks,
DD solved the problem by saying they should wear one batman sock and one Spiderman sock each.

However a few days later when dropping youngest off at the school nursery, daughter happened to look down and see that DS was wearing odd shoes!
His explanation was that he wanted big boy school shoes like his brother.
The boys had decided to do it mummy's way and wear one of each other shoes.

I agree with M0nica about it being the way you say it.
Our son has learning g disabilities and I remember the various people who worked with him all seemed to be obsessed about him having "choices".

However me being sneaky (and actually because he was a child and we did need to do mundane stuff), I was well aware that due to memory issues he would always pick the last thing I said, so there was some, er, thought put into what I said so I would get the right result!!

I go to Aldi on Sunday morning about 10 o’clock,every time I go there’s a women with a little boy who looks around 4 or 5,she talks in A VERY LOUD VOICE all the way round the shop about what there buying ,when there eating it, “ no you can’t have a banana it’ll spoil your lunch”until I’m at screaming pitch FFS sake! Feel like shoving a banana in her mouth.Must Start Going later.?

Exactly LondonMzFitz brilliant and very true !

I much prefer to encourage my DGC make their own choices .

Oh yes LondonMzFitz I recognise that scene!
My DGDs have matching dresses but this day only the older one aged 4 is wearing hers. Older one comes back from nursery and immediately is met by her toddler sister screaming and tugging at her dress until poor mum has to fetch the other dress to prove to the 18 month old that she has one too. It starts early.

I was a tired mum tidying up at the end of the day. It was always quicker to do it myself but I had read in a parenting manual (they did have them back then) which suggested you make a game of it. It always seemed a bit false to me but hey d'you know what, it works.
Takes a bit longer but if you have the energy to make any activity fun, it doesn't need to end in tears.
Does anyone remember John Burningham's book
Would you rather? It was a great favourite and consists of some grim alternatives like would you rather be made to eat spider stew, mashed worms or drink snail squash?
I don't believe any of the choices were very nice.

OMG, London, P's behavior boggles the mind!

My sister works with adults with severe learning difficulties and choice is a big issue.
She had an argument with a manager once about two clients who were sitting in heavy winter coats on a very hot day and was told 'it's their choice'. She argued that they did not have the mental capacity to understand the implications of the 'choice' they had made but their right to make an uninformed choice was sacrosanct. She said that it was a common problem and that the idea of directing people to the best choice was not getting through. They would not have connected being hot and uncomfortable with their clothing so unless staff did it for them they were going to stay uncomfortable.
Children have to learn how to make choices. It is unkind to give children a choice and then take it away from them but perversely done out of kindness. At least you were able to point it out and were listened to.

I totally agree with not giving children a choice, in my experience they are usually happy go along with whatever you have planned anyway as long as you don't give them an alternative and the alternative is more appealing.
Mcem - I always to to say to my children " that was an order not a request"when they questioned my way of saying how things were going to be. I have heard them say the exact same words to their children!
I also agree that many parents want to be the child's best friend, you are their parent not their friend for goodness sake.

LondonMzFitz sounds like "P" takes the view that "it's a tough unfair world out there, and you might as well get used to it" - even thought you're only 4!

It doesn't only apply to young children. My mother used always to ask my sisters and me if we 'would like to peel the potatoes' or 'would like to push the Hoover round'? I found it really irritating! I never refused to help round the house but I certainly never liked the idea of doing it! I still dont! ? I wished she'd just say, 'Will you?' I've read since that this is the best psychological approach if you want something to be done by someone else. You are giving a choice of a yes or no answer but you're more likely to get ready compliance than by using a 'would you mind very much and if it's not too much trouble' approach because that puts the idea in the other person's mind that it actually is an unreasonable request.

luluaugust:
Many parents seem to treat small children as adults until they become teenagers when they treat them like children.

Wise words

I liked to see my son (and only child) make choices, I thought it empowering. I give this as an example of a shopping trip with family -

Me, my 4 year old, his dad. His dad's mum, his dad's brother "P", his dad's brothers wife, their twin daughters aged 2, and his dad's brothers wifes mum. A big group of people!

I was left with my son, "P" was left with the twin daughters while everyone else scattered to the shops. "P" said they always let the girls have a cookie from Millies when shopping. So he and I and the three toddlers went to the cookie counter. "P" ordered 2 raisin cookies for the girls. I said to my son which would you like? He chose one with little sweeties on it. The girls were handed their raisin cookies, my son was handed his cookie with sweeties. The girls looked at theirs, looked at my sons, and said "I want his". "P" said - perhaps he'll share. And promptly took the cookie from my son and broke bits off for his daughters.

Explain that one to an only child aged 4 .....

Another family outing. We'd had a picnic, and went to the cafe to use the loo's and get tea and biscuits. Again - "P" said Twin 1 always has custard creams, Twin 2 always has chocolate bourbons. I said to my son, which would you like? (He chose the chocolate bourbons too). Twin 1 looked at Twin 2's biscuits and said "I want hers", and had a full on temper tantrum. Twin 2, happily and quietly eating her biscuit, had hers taken from her, snapped in two and handed to her bawling sister. When Twin 2 started to cry as her biscuit, her treat was taken away, she was taken to the other end of the cafe, given a stern talking to and a slap on the bum.

You couldn't make it up. I sat there open mouthed.