Squalour

I think we all have a certain duty to keep up standards for the sake of our neighbours, if you are harbouring mice and cockroaches etc that's going to affect other people isn't it, also if there are fire hazards

the stepson should be told to sling his hook if he can't maintain the standards expected by the rest of the household in my opinion

Why are you allowing this in your house Rene72 If he wants to live like that then its time to move on.

Why did you & your son clean his room for his fiancée coming?

My stepson still lives at home except from Friday to Sunday evening, (at his fiancée’s in a town 200 miles away) I do NOT go into his room at all it’s absolutely gross!!! His bed has only been changed once since Christmas, he occasionally puts some clothes into the washing machine and I hang them to dry, I refuse to iron them, at 73, I shouldn’t have to iron a 43 year old clothes, never did it for any of my own from them leaving school. Just after Christmas I took some clothes up to his room and there were cobwebs going from the wall to his rather large bedside cabinet! 4 years ago his fiancée was coming over and my younger son helped me to clean his room, it took us 2 days! He has really dirty habits too, NEVER gets a shower, sometimes, while playing his video games he even uses a bottle to pee in! Hence the reason I told my husband I’ll never clean his room again! He didn’t believe me until I brought a bottle of ‘water’ down for him to see! The amazing thing is he’s an MD at a plant hire company, always smells nice until you get too close, he goes through bottles and bottles of mens ‘perfume’. I can only think he gets a shower at his girlfriends house, hopefully, who’s a lovely woman. Nobody dare say anything to him because he just says keep out of his room and gets nasty!
BTW his room is on the top floor and has a bathroom up there which I do clean otherwise it would get into a terrible state and who wants to clean a filthy bathroom ugh ?

if he's clean and presentable .i would leave alone. if its piling up with papers etc rotten food ,then you need to talk to a health visitor or speak to him yourself...i think he would prefer a nice kind neighbour ...

My daughter has two children and I cannot go inside her house because she is embarrassed . I was there a year ago and the kids “ slime “ was on her carpet and she told me it still is there because she doesn’t know how to get it unstuck. Her car is filled with trash on the floor and when the grandkids get in their feet sink into the trash where it’s so deep you can’t see their shoes. Her house is the same way. Social services was called by her ex husband but as long as the children have food and a bed they gave her an okay. It’s so frustrating for me and it’s not teaching the grandchildren respect for their home and their toys. This has been going on since she married. And yes she has depression and OCD issues but the meds are controlling it. The thing is I wonder if the meds make her lack motivation. I just think it’s more my issue than hers.

My friend whose house was squalid was such a delight to visit though.

She would always give you tea out of the thermal pot which she kept on the floor beside her chair.
She'd use a cup from the pile on the floor next to the teapot.

Then when you'd finished your tea, the dregs would go back into the teapot and your cup put back on the tray.

I think many men, certainly my husband, would end up living like this if we weren’t around to take care of it all. May sound sexist but that’s the reality..

Relatives had similar with an elderly aunt. She kept herself clean and perfectly presentable but the house was pretty filthy - e.g. the loo had to be cleaned before they could bring themselves to use it - and they weren't over fussy types. As for the cooker....

They lived a long drive away and eventually said they'd stay in a B&B close by 'to save her any trouble'. The aunt's eyesight was bad and they suspected that she just didn't see the dirt. They did suggest a cleaner to help her, but although she was a lovely old lady and not at all 'difficult', she just didn't want anyone coming in.

TBH the dirt didn't seem to be affecting her health at all - she was evidently used to 'home germs' - and since she was quite happy, they didn't push it. In the end she died of something quite unrelated to hygiene, or lack of it.

A very close friend has a situation like this with his father. The house is so bad now that there is no point in trying to do anything about it. Over the years lots of people have helped to clear and clean it but it very soon goes back to being squalid. He is a highly intelligent man with a very successful career but he has no interest in his surroundings. His personal hygiene is excellent and he’s always well presented. It is actually a form of mental illness and we are very aware of that. He won’t change now and seeing as he lives alone we pretty much leave him to it now. I feel very sorry for his neighbours!!

Amongst a particular group of female friends one lives in great clutter, dust and grime. We have helped her,gently, to reduce the "stuff" she kept & she began to set herself targets. She no longer keeps every piece of paper & has shredded years of bills/ statements etc. but there is a lot still to reduce! It began as a result of the end of a relationship & cancelled wedding. To the outside world she is always clean , tidy and very organised. We all love her just as she is but she would like to have more space in her home!

It can be a mental health issue. When it gets so bad it overwhelms them and they simply don't know how to start, this then blinkers them to what is around them and they feel they have to keep everything. This feeling of being overwhelmed worsens with age. Men do see dirt, my husband is the opposite, he loves cleaning, I think he is the exception rather than the rule! I am not sure how you approach this but wish you luck.

Sorry I mean if he needs us.

We have this issue with our father
He used to be a smart and clean man in his appearance, being ex military
But his appearance has declined over the years, he is 84 and takes no care in his appearance and his flat is terrible.
My sister and I used to go and give it a good clean and declutter every now and then, but to no avail, it would end up back to squalor
He looks after his own meals,loves his own company and is happy in himself, so we let him alone now and he knows we are here if we need him
He has now started to pay one of our brothers to clean for him. So we know it isn't as bad as it was, even though he only does the surface

It’s entirely up to him how he wants to live. It might be squalor to you but it’s his home to him.

Thank you everyone for the further replies since I last commented. I perhaps ought to have made clear that by squalor I did mean more than general mess and hoarding and also that although he has been neither house proud nor tidy in the past what we witnessed was at a level beyond this.
Your responses have been insightful and helpful. Whilst we suspect there may be deeper issues at play, for the time being the combined wisdom, in line with our initial instincts, seems to be not to interfere ( there’s very little we can do personally to help anyway that wouldn’t be just scratching the surface).
We are genuinely concerned and do intend to keep a closer eye on him.
Oh and yes, just to clarify, he has laid mouse traps.

I would politely express concern about the repairs needed to the house and ask if he would like some help.

Depending on the way he answers you will either be taken up on the offer, or snubbed.

In the first case, you can suggest that before starting repairs it might be a good idea with a general tidying up inside the house. If he pooh-poohs the whole idea, there is nothing you can do.

Obviously, offering to help is only of any use if you have the time to help him. Sounds like it will take at least a week, especially if you intend to ask if he really needs to keep all the bits and pieces lying around.

I don't think you mentioned whether his house has always been untidy and dirty or not. If it has, he probably doesn't want help, but it will do no harm to ask.

I fear that , if anything happened to me , that's exactly what would become of our house. Hubby is wonderful, intelligent ( retired doctor) and a great husband, dad and grandad.. . But he hoards and is messy and just doesnt " see " things .
Is it a man thing? I know plenty of men who are tidy and particular !

His house, his rules. I have a close friend whose house can only be described as 'sticky' but it's not my business to comment.
Feel (as ever) rather depressed by Liz46 on here asking her husband for 'help' with housework. Since when were we born with dusters in our hands and why do so many men STILL assume the house is our job? Surely it's a shared enterprise? Isn't this 2019, not 1959?

I have to confess my house is in a terrible state. I used to work 3 days a week and just about kept on top of things, but then I changed jobs and for the last 6 years have worked 5 days a week, so things have got out of hand. I am currently trying to do a bit of a clear up as my DS and DIL are coming to stay next week. They know it will be a mess but it is far worse than the last time they came so I'm trying to improve things a bit. It's really hard though.

I am due to retire in a year's time and plan to de-clutter and downsize then but I guess it will take quite a time to achieve that. I rarely have friends round as I'm too ashamed of the state of the place, which is sad as I used to love entertaining. Unfortunately when things get out of hand it is quite overfacing to begin. I make a start sometimes but get exhausted quickly and rarely complete anything.

I also like making craft items which I give as gifts or sell for charity but I have lots of partially completed projects and materials I've collected for project ideas which need organising too. I guess I'm a hoarder in that respect as I can always come up with ideas for things I could make out of things other people would simply put in the bin.

I occasionally have been to other people's homes which are like mine and in some cases far worse. It can be a releif to know I'm not the only one who lives like this. I think it is something that often happens to people when they live alone after the family leave, especially as they get older. I live in hope that one day I will get to grips with it and put things in order. I know how good it feels after a tidy up but I don't seem to be able to keep things tidy for long!

My cousin has a friend who lives in the most unbelievable squalor. His personal hygiene is also very poor, because his bathroom is full of old tin cans which he is saving ‘to sell to a scrap merchant’.
His main problem is that he seems almost psychotically penny-pinching. He only flushes the toilet every two days to save the water meter!
He is very wealthy and frequently boasts about how much money he has, but will not consider paying a cleaner. He says that ‘a good woman’ should be happy to do his cleaning for free!
I think he is hoping that my cousin and I might be such good women, but altho’ we try to help, the situation is so extreme that two or three professional cleaners are needed to make a significant improvement.
I understand that he may have mental health issues, but it’s difficult to help him. He’s pretty lazy and obnoxious to be honest, as well as very whiffy, and his constant litany of complaints about having to pay perfectly reasonable costs is very wearing.
In an attempt to scratch the surface, my cousin has spent a lot of money on cleaning products for his house. He’s never offered a penny for her expenses, and has taken her efforts completely for granted.
You’ll probably think I’m a very hard-hearted old biddy, but although I feel bound to support my poor cousin in her efforts to help this unpleasant man, I really can’t stand him, and don’t know why she bothers. I’d let him rot in his own filth!

aggie

I am so sorry to hear that you have packed tour hobby away. I am terribly upset that those people actually made you feel shame for having around you the necessary items that go with an artistic hobby. I have been attacked in the same way.

Since being disabled I too have craft hobbies. My daughters decided to visit when I had some of my hobby materials out and immediately decided that I was on the cusp of hoarding things. Bits of fabric, which have so many uses, for quilting, for example, to them looked like off cuts of rubbish so they were annoyed when I said I needed them.

After they left I looked on the internet for storage ideas and for what actually constituted hoarding. I knew I wasn't a hoarder because of my frequent trips to the tip!

I found a very useful definition, which I put on the wall above my craft things:

Mess = Untidiness of items not in the right place because a) out being used b) awaiting organisation

Clutter = Things which do not add value to your life.

The lady giving advice about how to de-clutter said there is one golden rule:
Do not decide for other people about their stuff. You will only hurt them. be patient and respectful.

I could have kissed her! My children's attitude that day cut deep into my heart. I had given them a home and everything they had for a happy life in extremely difficult conditions because their father was cruel and mean and selfish. He was a covert narcissist of the cruelest kind.
That day, by judging me and not bothering to see exactly what I had been through at the hands of this builder, who had not even built the wheelchair ramp but taken nearly twice the estimate by threatening me, and by deciding that because I had boxes of things I must be hoarding, when in those boxes were the plates they had eaten from, still packed away from the building work because there were no cupboards and because the floors all had to be taken up.... By jumping to conclusions and deciding I must be something they had just learned about from TV, actually they drove a huge rift us. I no longer trust them. I know they are out of touch with me. I know they have no idea about my life, about my disabilities of how much pain I am in. They do not want to have any kind of understanding that their lives were as they had them because of what I did for them but prefer to think that their daddy was wonderful and he would be be much better to have around. It is so unbearable that I now avoid them.

On the info I looked up, the lady also gave some advice about how to get rid of things by deciding if they added value to your life. She said we could decide on the following points;
Love - do I love it?
Use - do I use it?
Space - Is there space for it?
Lifestyle - Does it fit my lifestyle? (It might have done once, but now is out of use, even though you have got used to thinking of it as being there.)

aggie, it saounds to me as though the card making was an essential part of your identity and a very rewarding creative hobby in which you could become immersed and express yourself. I think it would be wonderful if you could resume doing it. Could you not find a part of the room for your work table and storage boxes and equipment on shelves? Ant "looking askance" at art work in progress, to me, shows nothing but ignorance. It reminds me of my mother, when I was revising for A level, saying "Stop idling around there with your head stuck in a book and get up and do something useful."

GuestCorrectly There could be reasons why your relative has become unable to sort out the house. But unless he completely trusts you and feels you support him and respect him, you cannot help him.

I am a bit worried about the mice and would suggest you get one of the deterrent machines that you plug in.

My husband piles things in bedrooms, his clothes mostly. He says he needs so many clothes for different circumstances, ie he often has to work away from home. We have enough toiletries to rival an average size branch of Boots! He says he gets them as they are bargains and will go up in price. He has hoarded carrier bags since we have had to pay for them. He does not seem to know how to put anything away tidily. I recently sneaked a massive amount of bags to charity shops and every so often sneak some clothes to charity shops too. He is always smartly dressed and l keep the downstairs as tidy as l can, particularly as l mostly work from home. It does get me down, though, as with working myself the last thing l want is to face and/or discuss the hoard. Hoarders always have a reason for the way they are and genuinely show fear that someone might clear everything away. In every other way he is a very good, loving husband and father. He also holds a highly responsible job that requires intelligence.

I've known several men in their 50's who lived like this - including a brother-in-law. It was appalling.

Yes people can live how they want to, but it can become a health risk, especially as we age, can't see things so well, or just can't be bothered to get rid of waste.

I think most people would recognise that it's not just a case of being untidy. It is a case of food waste being spilt or left about on the floor, plates and benches for weeks that attract vermin; a toilet that no longer flushes properly and hasn't been clean for some time; dirty bed linen that hasn't been cleaned for months etc. These are the types of issues that would ring alarm bells for me.

It will require more than your standard cleaner to work through it so it is worth knowing that there are companies out there that can do one-off blitzes - like an end of tenancy clean - should help be needed, although it's not always cheap.

There is an on-line provider where you can find qualified tradespeople on their database who do this sort of work in any location. They are give thorough checks, including Police checks and there is a facility to read feedback.

Although a one-off blitz won't solve an on-going problem, I guess there could be a possibility that the cleaning company agrees to come in once a month to provide a top-up at a much cheaper rate.

I appreciate it is difficult to approach people about this sort of concern as we found ourselves, and the best thing is to monitor it for any deterioration in living conditions and mental health. It's a tough one.

As for free-will, yes I go along with that, but life changes as you get older. The tables turn and SOME older people, like young people, do start needing protection as they can no longer can make the judgement calls they used to, especially against fast-talkers whose sole objective it to cause them financial harm; or not being able to help themselves get out of a domestic rut because everything has become very physically demanding and hard for them like moving, lifting items, putting out rubbish etc.

I commend you GuestCorrectly for caring which is something we all need to do for those we perceive as being vulnerable. We'll get a short shrift if attention is not wanted, but at least we can say we tried.

You are very kind to worry about your relative. Some people just can't sort out the house. I'm not good at it but only got in a mess because of a disaster and my health which means I have to lie down most of the day.

The evil thieving builder who left my house unfinished left me, disabled, unable to unpack the boxes I had packed away my things into before he started. My house is a kind of dump. I do not know where to start. On top of this, I still have some of my late mother's things and a lot of things from the home of a man who committed suicide and left me to find him. I can't park near enough to Charity shops to get rid of it all and lifting books etc is painful. My favourite trip out is to the tip recycling centre where they know me and are so kind to me.

Then I found a person at Age UK who gave me the number of another group. A wonderful young man came out and he is arranging for a charity that rehouse people who lose their homes in an emergency. They are away in August but in September I hope they will arrive. There are so many organisations that want to help us elderly stay in our homes.

You might benefit from talking to someone at Age UK in his area. They might say leave him if he is in good health, but just talking to them might help you feel better about him and not worry so much.

If the mice are contaminating food - they wee everywhere - this isn't too good. When the builders left holes in my walls I bought an electric machine that does not distress cats and dogs but keeps away vermin, cockroaches spiders, everything you don't want! on Amazon there are many.
I filled the worst hole myself incidentally. It was kind of like icing a cake but lying on your stomach to do it in a dark place in the corner under the stop cock!

If conditions are dangerous, there are people who will do Hoarder Clearance. They are discrete and professional. It is expensive. I looked into it because of the amount of stuff I had to move to have the floors taken up but they said it wasn't a hoarded category so didn't need the expense of their service. I was impressed by the people. The council sometimes fund it for a person in need. E.g. when a person cannot leave hospital until their home is safe.

I do understand how people can become unable to cope. It happens very easily and quickly. In my case it's being disabled and having no cupboards as well as needing to have my floors taken up. There is nowhere to put anything except on the work-top where I have to put my food as well as plates etc! On top of this I have all my DIY tools and pots of paint around as these jobs have got to be done and there is only me to do it as the evil builder defrauded me out of a lot of money. But if this gentleman got rid of some of his extraneous stuff he might manage better.

My adorable FIL didn't know what to do with things. Once I knew him well, I just helped him organise where to put things. His main problem was paperwork so I gave him an easy filing system of three boxes. Withe food and food prep, I just sorted out the things he needed daily and put the rest away, keeping a few pots and plates near the front for the odd times he needed to use a bit more. My system at the mo is to use just a few items for eating and cooking and not have many out. Once the cupboards and shelves are up and the other furniture is back when my floors are mended, I can get to my other dinner service and food prep dishes etc.

Some people just get depressed. Some are getting dementia - hence forget the toast is there. I have to admit, I made a rice pudding and completely forgot that the remainder was still in the oven (too hot for fridge) until I found it several days later! I have also defrosted items for the next day and not remembered them. This happens a lot because I get terrible migraines. I live alone and realise how not having another person who remembers things makes a big difference. It also makes a difference with carrying things upstairs such as the laundry. Being disabled this is very difficult. Some people just can't do housework. I never had much talent for it but I always kept our home clean and clear of clutter. Some have burn-out from a far too demanding career - like Social Work!