Do you think people judge you if you’re estranged from members of your family?

That is so sad Glasgowgal.
I don't judge people but I do pity them if they are unhappy about the separation.
The DD of relatives distanced herself from her divorcing parents, changed her name and refused to have anything to do with either of them, or her siblings. At first they tried to contact her but eventually gave up trying.
Both her DP have died and she claimed her share of the inheritance through a lawyer - never came to their funerals so I guess there is some judgment on my part.
I feel the need to hear her side of the story.
She is a mother and a grandmother and has a facebook presence which is how I know.

Glasgowgal

What a horrible thing for your son's m.i.l. to say Glasgowgal. I totally agree; "what kind of mother would say that to another mother'.

Our ES told us before he estranged us that they needed some space, which we gave them. I hadn't realised that someone's concept of space would be so extreme.

You were right not to just show up at their house, you saved your GC and yourself a great deal of upset.

Like you and no doubt so many EP's, we'd looked forward to GC running about our home and now accept that this isn't going to be the case.

Your D is right and it's good that you have her in your life.

I am estranged from my son, his choice. Don’t know why, tried to write to him phone him etc. No reply. And didn’t want to appear at his house for fear of upsetting the 4 grandchildren. Probably that was wrong of me. Maybe I should have tried harder but he told me not to contact him that he would contact me. That was 5 years ago.
He returned my Christmas cards last year telling me not to send any more cards. I met his mother in law recently and she told me my son hates me. Now what kind of mother would say that to another mother. I’m so distraught about that I am always thinking about him. As far as I am aware I’ve done nothing, all I ever did was love him and help him with any financial difficulties.
But him and his wife always caused me stress when they did deign to visit. So my daughter tells me we are all better off without them in our lives because we have no more stress. But he is my son and I will always love him.
So I wouldn’t judge anyone who was estranged from their family. It’s so very hard and much as I always wanted a big happy family with lots of grandchildren running about it just isn’t ever going to happen I fear.

It certainly does appear to be very common Missfoodlove.

As you say, anyone with NPD "would never accept any blame or responsibility for the breakdown in the relationship" and their ability to manipulate and control others, to the extent that they can even convince a partner to estrange their own parents is frightening.

I think I have an NPD radar too! I just wish I'd had it when our ES first met his future wife!!

I am fairly sure that NPD must be one of the most common reasons for estrangement.

Unfortunately anyone with NPD would never accept any blame or responsibility for the breakdown in the relationship, this is where the lies come in to create a total fantasy to justify the situation.

I have close family members that think I have coerced my late mother for money.
She even told a lawyer that I was trying to get ownership of her house.

I have had years and years of being judged, I stopped caring once I understood the NPD, I finally learned it was her not me.

I now have an NPD radar! It’s surprising how many there are out there.

I think I may have even detected one or two here on gransnet?.

I agree too Iamand Sara. We owe it to ourselves and those who love us to make the most of what we have and live our lives to the full.

Iam64
Yes, I agree

This is one of the most positive discussions on Estrangement I’ve been part of. Living the best land lives we can is the best way to go.

Chewbacca

^It’s a sad and horrible thing to say, but I just don’t like her, and if she was honest, I think she’d^ probably say, she doesn’t like me either.

That resonates.

Me as well chewbacca.

At the end of the day, estrangement may very well come down to the fact that not everyone likes someone else. And as we are all adults, we get to choose who we have in our lives. There is no magical wand that that makes family relationships any different than other relationships. And sometimes those work out, but others they dont. The pain is still there, but it is something that we must get through.

Sadly, if we were talking about a friendship or a relationship, people would be screaming at us to move along. For some reason, with family that is not the case. As if having that blood relationship somehow trumps everything else.

Also, for those who are unfamilier, the actual quote is:

"the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb"

Whcih, of course, means the exact opposite of how it is usually intended.

It’s a sad and horrible thing to say, but I just don’t like her, and if she was honest, I think she’d probably say, she doesn’t like me either.

That resonates.

Some people will, others won't and most don't really care. Those who do judge may judge in your favour, rather than condemn you, although criticism, disparagement and blame are much easier and, for some, more fun than a fair and reasoned assessment.

Freedomfromthepast

So much of what you say resonates with me.
I especially agree with your comment that it’s not all about blame, that we have to all accept that we may have made things worse, not intentionally, but just because of who we are.

My mother and I were never destined to have a good relationship, I definitely wasn’t the child she wanted, and she certainly wasn’t what I needed. I tried and tried, I wanted what I saw other families had, but it was never going to happen. I always felt responsible for everything, that my mothers unhappiness had to be my fault.

She never had any friends, apart from my gran, and they were practically joined at the hip,

It’s a sad and horrible thing to say, but I just don’t like her, and if she was honest, I think she’d probably say, she doesn’t like me either.

I am semi estranged.
If you have an abusive family, you'll have to choose between what's good for yourself and what's good for them- and that's very often not the same thing.
No one else has walked in your shoes or has your family history, so they don't have the right to judge. Maybe they do judge but they aren't your friend if they do. Also if they aren't your friend don't discuss important and personal things with them.

I also forgot to to respond to your comment regarding her not bonding with you.

My own mother was a teen mom who, I believe, got pregnant with me so someone would love her. Turns out I have a very strong personality and she used to sneer at me and tell me that at age 2 I refused to wear what she wanted me to so I was difficult. I was always difficult because I wasnt some doll she could play with and put away. I was a living, breathing thing.

She loves to tell people now that she wouldnt do it the same way and she regrets having me. No matter what age you are, that is tough to hear.

I finally estranged when she turned her vitrol onto my children and I finally realized that I am not responsible for her happiness (nor are my children). She has had this expectation that I am her savior in life, I am supposed to make her happy. But deep down no one will ever make her happy. My only choice, much like someone dealing with an addict who cant/wont get treatment, is to walk away in order to protect myself and my children.

I want/ed a loving mother. But that isnt what I have. That is my lot in life. I dont dwell. But I have dedicated my life to stopping the cycle abuse so my kids grow up knowing something more normal than I have.

Sara; my own mother had a difficult childhood as well. I used to believe that she was doing her best. She even had me believing that she was a good parent because she didnt physically abuse me as she had been (her words). I sometimes wished there had been physical abuse as then people would see her for what she was and believe me. Trust me, the meotional abuse she flung my way hurt and left a lasting mark.

It was very validating to me when my childhood friends learned of my estrangement and they said, i am not surprised, she was horrible to you. At the very least I knew I wasnt crazy because I wasnt the only one seeing it.

While I do understand that there are people who are brainwashed and coerced, some people are affected by drugs and alcohol, but way to much blame is put on the EAC IMO. So many people automatically assume that because an AC is estragned, some outside force must be the cause because no one would even estrange thier parent.

Yes, it happens. But not in every single case. And so many EAC mention thier parents putting on such a good face to the world that the parents friends/family are shocked and cant see why they would have an EAC.

My point here is not to place blame on either side, but to point out that even if one thinks a family is perfect from the outside looking in, the ones living in the scenario may have a different story to tell.

No one should be judging estrangement because no one knows what happens on the other side of the door. Every single case of estrangment has a story that is likely to long to tell. And hearing only one side will never give you the full picture.

Freedomfromthepast

I agree with you. When I finally walked away twenty years ago, my husband understood, it’s not something he could ever have done himself, but he knew what my mother was like, and what a terrible strained relationship we had, he said he supported me, but I had to consider how I would feel if she suddenly died, and we were estranged, I did consider it, and didn’t change my mind.

My best friend, who had known my parents since our teenage years, thought my mother was horrible, and didn’t blame me.

Another close friend was supportive, and most people who knew my mother weren’t surprised,

But there were and are people who can’t understand why a person would abandon their poor old widowed mother.

She has suffered great sadness in her life, which I think probably made her unable to bond with me, I accept that, but it wasn’t my fault.

I suppose if things hadn’t come to a head when they did, I might still have been trapped in a relationship which was totally negative, she made me feel really bad about myself, I feel so liberated now, and frankly, I couldn’t care less what anyone thinks.

I can only comment from my own experience as an EAC.

It is my experience that if siblings are estranged, people understand that. No one judges it. You say your siblig is toxic and people believe you and understand.

Estrangement between a parent/child is an entire different set of cirstances. It is my experience that society judges EAC and believes that EP are victims. How could ANYONE estrange a parent???? Gasp, the horrer! This is especially relevant when the estranged person puts on a good face for the public, much as my own mother did.

EAC are in a very particular situation in that the only other people who support them are other EAC. AC from healthy families dont understand and the majority of parents, estranged or not, are horrified at a child estranging their parents.

Our society puts parents on a pedestal, despite the fact that some parents dont deserve to be there. There is also a gray area where emotional abuse from parents to children is often not seen. And many parents dont not believe that their treatment of thier children amounted to emotional abuse.

At the end of the day, it is a very difficult decision to estrange oneself from anyone. It is one that usually takes years to complete and is mostly done as a last resort in order to remove oneself from a toxic environment. No one can judge unless they walk a mile in the other persons shoes.

So, I could care less who judges me. Those who matter dont mind and those who mind dont matter.

Maybe we should think of some of these situations as “healthy separations” rather than negative estrangements.

I like that holly, a proactive, rather than a reactive view.

Yes it is Sparkling but if you estrange someone who was abusive, who made your life a misery it isn't you whose the failure it's them.

Likewise, if you've been estranged by someone you loved and cared for, did the best that you could for, they're the one who has failed, not you.

I think some. people think the worst of you if you are estranged, especially from your mother or son or daughter. The assumption is there must be something wrong with you. I don’t know about anyone else, but the feeling of failure anyway is hard to cope with.

That's very sad Nezumi and illustrates how estrangement affects, not just the person or people who are estranged but an entire family.

Of course where there's been abuse it's a no brainer but there are so many examples where this is not the case and also where the actual reason for the estrangement is never known, and those who are estranged can only guess as to the cause.

My mum's sister estranged herself from my mother, and by extension me. She never expressed why. I did put some feelers out (added her on FB), but she soon unfriended me. I know my mum put a few out - largely in the very early years (just a Christmas card type thing - in part because there was never an argument) but they're refused or ignored and after a while you obviously have to accept that you are not wanted or required and let it go.

My mum thinks it is because she is the one who noticed that her husband is almost certainly abusive and asked her once about a black eye. Who knows whether her sister knows that is why she has estranged her. Maybe she thinks she has a different reason or maybe she genuinely does.

I think it's all rather sad and pointless - am particularly sad that it also means I lost contact with my cousins. My aunt was also quite a big part of my childhood, so I feel sad those memories were lost. I'm part of a large family who generally all get on with each other without living in each others pockets so it's unusual for their family. The husband has never liked her rest of the family though (is from a much wealthier background and can be quite bullying imo)

The last time she saw my middle son he was crawling - he's an adult now. She has never seen my youngest. So whilst sad in many ways it is now irrelevant. She has no idea what my life is like (or my mums) as she has been absent for the very challenging times we have been through with our eldest severely disabled son.

So given the complexities up close I don't really judge estrangement (apart from the situations where I know the estrangement has followed years of abusive behaviour - which does happen), just think it's often rather sad.

So your poor sister was in an abusive coercive relationship agnurse, how terrible for her, your parents and the rest of your family.

I agree too hollysteers and TrendyNannie it is better to be free of a negative and nasty relationship but so hard when you love one of those responsible especially when it's your own child.

Couldn’t agree more holly steers, so true, sometimes you call it a day simply because it’s more healthy to do this, I for one will not and cannot keep hearing negativity and nastiness all the time, it says so much about the person or persons doing this, as for do people judge yes some do, but at the end of the day why would you be concerned about what other people have opinions on, if you know you are a kind loyal person you can walk tall!