Who has a son and it hurts?

Thanks Madgran77 What you said is true. All we can do is change our own behaviour. The one thing I've done is stop making the effort because he makes none.

Merylstreep that's a shame! I hope she comes back.

Madgran
I doubt if the OP is still reading. She last commented on her OP a month ago October 18.

You are all so fantastic, but it’s so hard to change the habits of a lifetime

It is but it can be necessary. You can't change his behaviour but you can change your own. I am so sorry as I know it is painful to be treated like this

When he "puts you down" how do you react? What did he do that made the birthday meal a complete train wreck? I understand if you don't wish to give more detail but it could be helpful for suggesting alternatives to your responses.

Bluebelle it sounds like you may be right. I have a painful son and a not-painful son. I wonder if my painful son is trying to assert control because he feels useless and a failure too? I don't know what he has said to my other son, but he wants nothing to do with him. I wish he would get help for himself and stop pushing us away or putting others down.

There is support out there and help for those who want it, but the problem I have had with my painful son is that he doesn't want help, he wants attention and doesn't care what he does to get it- and when he doesn't get his own way and have control of a situation, he cuts people off. If only he would engage with the people who could help him, our family would be in such a different place.

You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink. I mean, you can tell them about all the help out there, but if they do not want to change, they won't. They will try to take you down with them, so it's definitely good to make your own life busy and as good as you can.

All I want to say Campanula is he hurts you and his sister because you are safe he knows you are always there for him remember the saying you always hurt the one you love
I m sure he is not doing it on purpose and he has done well to be sober 6 years
Pull back a little bit and start doing nice things for yourself
He puts you down to feel more in control he probably feels useless and a failure and jealous of his happy sister so he feels the need to put others down too
He’s unhappy and needs everyone else to feel his pain
I think Al anon may help you put things in place
You have done so well start thinking of you and every good luck in the world

Forgive me for answering this in the wee small hours but sleep frequently eludes me. As an alcoholic 6 years sober on Saturday, having 4 sons, and estranged from one of them I thought I could comment. I also have a daughter by the way.

It can hurt to be the mother of any one of my sons. It can also sometimes hurt to be mum to daughter and DIL. That said I know what you mean as one of my son's has at times been a challenge to me. We have been estranged now for 8 years but he is not close to any of his family members. Do I as his mum, and a sober alcoholic, have to take ownership of how he is? I think not but there will be aspects of my personality and way of raising him which will have led us to this point. I do believe it is the same for all children. At the end of the day though most of us trudge through life doing our best. I feel the need at this time to focus on my own health and well- being as I get a bit older. I want to be well and happy to enjoy and contribute to life with family and friends. So I think you should follow suit and put your foot down a little. At the age of 51 your son needs to find other means of support to deal with his issues. I can see the problem with the dynamic in my son's 'new family'. I really can but it is his choice to live the way he now does - oh he has his own business etc, hard working man. I know he is well so just leave him to get on with his life. Your son? Well it very much depends on his state of mind and if he has illness underlying the alcohol problem.

I am an Alcoholic in recovery,coming up to 19years now,it sounds as if your son is still suffering with the ISM of Alcoholism,I,SELF,ME.We are not easy people to deal with.I attend AA,that has never lessened for me.I find it vital to keep me well balanced.I have a great relationship with my children,but it took a long time.

@agnurse,the term “dry drunk”is not helpful and not used nowadays.

Campanula

Sadly, there is such a thing as a "dry drunk" - someone who is exhibiting the same toxic behaviours as they did when they were drinking, even if they are not currently drinking.

You may like to consider looking into Al-Anon. This is an offshoot of Alcoholics Anonymous, but it's intended for people who are affected by someone else's drinking.

I am so sorry Campanula . It's painful, I know. I too had a difficult teenager with MH problems who has grown sullen and doesn't accept treatment for the MH problems, is paranoid , takes drugs and has cut everybody off in our family. Everything is "everybody's fault but his" You don't deserve sullen and picking at everything. It's great your son is sober and that you stood by him. He does sound miserable to be picking at things, but it's not an excuse.

I'm so sorry to hear how your son talked to you User7777 and I can also identify with it. When my ES used to talk to us it consisted of conspiracy theories, politics, government, NHS rants. He would say we were wrong about everything and it became a no win, one way conversation. He eventually used the covid jab (I think it was an excuse) to cut us off completely.

I realised today that every time I met one of his girlfriends I always liked them and they liked me, but he would grow irate and demand I was horrible to them, which I would refuse to do. I forgot about this behaviour when he lived away from home for a while, but when he was married he moved in for a while with his wife. I was horrified to see his controlling behaviour but hadn't looked at the bigger picture til now.

She did tell me he was controlling her and she wanted to talk, but he wasn't letting her. I knew she was telling the truth because it happened with two of his previous girlfriends. I don't even know if this is a normal thing to get annoyed if your wife/g/f and mother get on, because I've googled it and can't find the answers?!

Yes, I have a son and it hurts. A lot. to all others who do.

Message deleted by Gransnet for breaking our forum guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Not found his calling yet I meant

Healthy boundaries are difficult to put in place and harder to stick to.
You've had a painful journey as a loved with alcohol addiction is tough.
If he's doing the steps and attending AA , he's doing what he can and maybe now found his calling yet.
It's time for self care now, short sentences like,

I love you but I'm hurting right now .
Or
I am putting some self care and healthy boundaries in place for the first time and I know you'd want to respect that.
Or
In my own home please don't talk to me like that, I can see your hurting but it's unacceptable.

Then build your own life with hobbies and spa days etc
Pick your battles and you don't have to attend most battles
Good luck

So means soon

Mines turned up again. I forgive and tell them I love them and like them. Then the chat begins, what do I think of

A. Pandemic
B. Climate stuff. Environment
C. Micro beads in stuff.
D. Politician being killed
If I answer it then turns in verbal abuse.
So, sat in bed now. Am tired of it all. I am having a Carers Assessment so, as that is what i am, sort of. Multiple health issues and no peace for me. If he could, he would get back into my womb. At least i am aware of it

Campanula

My son went into rehab and had counselling

Does he still continue with that now or was it just for a short time
I am not being nosy but as an alcoholic in recovery myself I know what untreated alcoholism can be like
Although I have been sober near on 20 years I still use the support of my AA group . Just stopping drinking without dealing with your alcoholism can be hard Stopping drinking is the easy bit dealing with life sober is the hard bit

Campanula what has he said about that or why he treats you this way?

My son went into rehab and had counselling

You mention your son is 6 years sober did he have outside support with this because untreated alcoholism can leave someone with a very uncomfortable life.
It is totally unacceptable for him to treat you badly.

Campanula have you asked him why he acts like that? Has he done any counselling? You could offer joint counselling and talk this through with a third party to help guide the conversation?

You sound like you aren't ready to stop trying to make things better but accepting bad behaviour doesn't do that either. So he needs to understand that either you work together to make this right or you aren't available as an emotional punching bag.

mumofmadboys, such wise advice, as always.

I'm sorry things are hard for you Campanula. Have you tried saying an 'I' statement ? Such as 'I feel sad and close to tears when I am treated rudely'. If he is rude cut short the time you spend with him so he knows his behaviour has consequences. By making an I statement it cuts out being accusatory or saying 'You have done this, that or the other'. Tiny steps and hopefully his behaviour will improve.

Yes, just focus on the good things, so your daughter. Leave your son to his own devices. It changes nothing if you constantly try to make a difference. It’s not like it’s out of character.

Look after yourself, and leave him space to think. He’s not a child. He’s done well with his addiction, hopefully other good things will follow.

Hugs and love to you Campanula. I loved an alcoholic once. It’s difficult.
But can only echo what everyone here seems to be saying, pull back from your son but be there for him if he approaches you amicably, look after yourself, and appreciate your lovely daughter.
My son is on the other side of the world with his own family including my 2 dear GC . No estrangement, just miles apart and no prospect of a visit in the near future.

Yes it is hard Campanula but just do it a little at at time, then he'll get used to it and so will you.

I was so sorry to read your story Campanula. I have no wise words to offer but I wanted to say I am so sorry you have lost three babies and that your son behaves like this towards you but I am so glad you have a lovely and loving daughter. Sadly, those we love most have the capacity to hurt us most, whether they mean to or not. Sending you a hug.?