DH’s friend made a pass at me, should I let it it go?

Thank you for the feedback Margomar. I think he needs to have someone with him as carer in those circs and I agree if it happens again to have word with choir manager for that end.

Some men can't read body language or perhaps just ignore it. I had offered some of my extra tomato plants to people in a group. The first man came round, had a tour of the garden and then as we were coming down steps, grabbed me from behind and hugged me. He was so embarrassed when I pulled away and we felt awkward the next time we met.
Another was very disappointed when I told him to call round any time as I had left his plants out at the door for him. I think he thought he would get more than plants.

He needs to be reported to the choir management- dementia or not

He does it to you, he does it to others

If he is a danger to others, he shouldn't be in public w/o proper supervision

I’ve been away and rather distracted, but have found responses here very helpful and mostly very thoughtful so thanks everybody. . Somebody asked “what group involves 18 -85 year olds?” Well, it’s a choir of about 30, The old duffer who thought it ok to touch me , followed by a slightly saucy innuendo ( he must be a fan of Benny Hill) is actually quite ill and as some have suggested could be be suffering onset of dementia. I will let it go( back to rehearsals next week) and will just avoid him. If he tries anything again I’ll make sure everyone hears my response!!

FannyCornforth

I doubt if the op is even reading this.
She didn’t come back, did she?

Yup, interesting, huh? wind up?

Enidd

HiPpyChick57

Enidd

You did the right thing by moving away from. I’d continue to keep distance and forget about it. It’s probably just who he is, some flirty old guy.

Just some flirty old guy???
Aye and I’m just some feisty old girl who would knee him in the nuts if he put his hands on me!

@HippyChick; Sounds like rather an over reaction to a daft man! Hardly a predator 😂

Something similar happened to a woman I know. She'd recently come out of hospital after having had major surgery and was still nursing a wound dressing around her upper abdominal area. It was her first 'night out' and she'd dressed up for the occasion to make herself feel 'normal' again.

A man she knew, but not overly well, grabbed her around the waist and told her how "delightful" she looked. She was still very sore from the surgery and his little 'squeeze' hurt. And she told him off. Rightly.

That's just one good reason why men should keep their hands to themselves, predator or not, daft or not.

Oh, and some predatory men start their little escapades by being 'friendly' and hoping you won't make a fuss... or "over-react".

HiPpyChick57

Enidd

You did the right thing by moving away from. I’d continue to keep distance and forget about it. It’s probably just who he is, some flirty old guy.

Just some flirty old guy???
Aye and I’m just some feisty old girl who would knee him in the nuts if he put his hands on me!

@HippyChick; Sounds like rather an over reaction to a daft man! Hardly a predator 😂

Good but I wouldn’t be saying please. It would be a straightforward command.

The child should not be expected to say it herself at so young an age.

Philippa111

Male entitlement. This is where is starts and isn't this mother so conscious and courageous.

Things ARE changing.

I quote from the USA :

“A grown man looms behind my three-year-old daughter. Occasionally he will poke or tickle her and she responds by shrinking. Smaller and smaller with each unwanted advance. I imagine her trying to become slight enough to slip out of her booster seat and slide under the table.
When my mother views this scene, she sees playful taunting. A grandfather engaging with his granddaughter.
“Mae.” My tone cuts through the din of a familiar family gathering together. She does not look at me.
“Mae.” I start again. “You can tell him no Mae. If this isn’t okay you could say something like, Papa, please back up—I would like some space for my body.”
As I say the words, my step-father, the bulldog, leans in a little closer, hovering just above her head. His tenebrous grin taunts me as my daughter accordions her 30-pound frame hoping to escape his tickles and hot breath.
I repeat myself with a little more force. She finally peeks up at me.
“Mama . . . can you say it?”
Surprise. A three-year-old-girl doesn’t feel comfortable defending herself against a grown man. A man that has stated he loves and cares for her over and over again, and yet, stands here showing zero concern for her wishes about her own body. I ready myself for battle.
“Papa! Please back up! Mae would like some space for her body.”
My voice is firm but cheerful. He does not move.
“Papa. I should not have to ask you twice. Please back up. Mae is uncomfortable.”
“Oh, relax,” he says, ruffling her wispy blonde hair.
The patriarchy stands, patronizing me in my own damn kitchen. “We’re just playin’.” His southern drawl does not charm me.
“No. You were playing. She was not. She’s made it clear that she would like some space, now please back up.”
“I can play how I want with her.” He says, straightening his posture.
My chest tightens. The sun-bleached hairs on my arms stand at attention as this man, who has been my father figure for more than three decades, enters the battle ring.
“No. No, you cannot play however you want with her. It’s not okay to ‘have fun’ with someone who does not want to play.”
He opens his mouth to respond but my rage is palpable through my measured response. I wonder if my daughter can feel it. I hope she can.
He retreats to the living room and my daughter stares up at me. Her eyes, a starburst of blue and hazel, shine with admiration for her mama. The dragon has been slayed (for now). My own mother is silent. She refuses to make eye contact with me.
This is the same woman who shut me down when I told her about a se*ual assault I had recently come to acknowledge.
This is the same woman who was abducted by a carful of strangers as she walked home one night. She fought and screamed until they kicked her out. Speeding away, they ran over her ankle and left her with a lifetime of physical and emotional pain.
This is the same woman who said nothing, who could say nothing as her boss and his friends se*ually harassed her for years.
This is the same woman who married one of those friends.
When my mother views this scene, she sees her daughter overreacting. She sees me ‘making a big deal out of nothing.’ Her concerns lie more in maintaining the status quo and cradling my step-dad’s toxic ego than in protecting the shrinking three-year-old in front of her.
When I view this scene, I am both bolstered and dismayed. My own strength and refusal to keep quiet is the result of hundreds, probably thousands of years of women being mistreated, and their protests ignored. It is the result of watching my own mother suffer quietly at the hands of too many men. It is the result of my own mistreatment and my solemn vow to be part of ending this cycle.
It would be so easy to see a little girl being taught that her wishes don’t matter. That her body is not her own. That even people she loves will mistreat and ignore her. And that all of this is “okay” in the name of other people, men, having fun.
But. What I see instead is a little girl watching her mama. I see a little girl learning that her voice matters. That her wishes matter. I see a little girl learning that she is allowed and expected to say no. I see her learning that this is not okay.
I hope my mom is learning something, too.
Fighting the patriarchy one grandpa at a time.”
~ By Lisa Norgren

What an amazing lady.

Philippa111

👏👏👏

Enidd

You did the right thing by moving away from. I’d continue to keep distance and forget about it. It’s probably just who he is, some flirty old guy.

Just some flirty old guy???
Aye and I’m just some feisty old girl who would knee him in the nuts if he put his hands on me!

Male entitlement. This is where is starts and isn't this mother so conscious and courageous.

Things ARE changing.

I quote from the USA :

“A grown man looms behind my three-year-old daughter. Occasionally he will poke or tickle her and she responds by shrinking. Smaller and smaller with each unwanted advance. I imagine her trying to become slight enough to slip out of her booster seat and slide under the table.
When my mother views this scene, she sees playful taunting. A grandfather engaging with his granddaughter.
“Mae.” My tone cuts through the din of a familiar family gathering together. She does not look at me.
“Mae.” I start again. “You can tell him no Mae. If this isn’t okay you could say something like, Papa, please back up—I would like some space for my body.”
As I say the words, my step-father, the bulldog, leans in a little closer, hovering just above her head. His tenebrous grin taunts me as my daughter accordions her 30-pound frame hoping to escape his tickles and hot breath.
I repeat myself with a little more force. She finally peeks up at me.
“Mama . . . can you say it?”
Surprise. A three-year-old-girl doesn’t feel comfortable defending herself against a grown man. A man that has stated he loves and cares for her over and over again, and yet, stands here showing zero concern for her wishes about her own body. I ready myself for battle.
“Papa! Please back up! Mae would like some space for her body.”
My voice is firm but cheerful. He does not move.
“Papa. I should not have to ask you twice. Please back up. Mae is uncomfortable.”
“Oh, relax,” he says, ruffling her wispy blonde hair.
The patriarchy stands, patronizing me in my own damn kitchen. “We’re just playin’.” His southern drawl does not charm me.
“No. You were playing. She was not. She’s made it clear that she would like some space, now please back up.”
“I can play how I want with her.” He says, straightening his posture.
My chest tightens. The sun-bleached hairs on my arms stand at attention as this man, who has been my father figure for more than three decades, enters the battle ring.
“No. No, you cannot play however you want with her. It’s not okay to ‘have fun’ with someone who does not want to play.”
He opens his mouth to respond but my rage is palpable through my measured response. I wonder if my daughter can feel it. I hope she can.
He retreats to the living room and my daughter stares up at me. Her eyes, a starburst of blue and hazel, shine with admiration for her mama. The dragon has been slayed (for now). My own mother is silent. She refuses to make eye contact with me.
This is the same woman who shut me down when I told her about a se*ual assault I had recently come to acknowledge.
This is the same woman who was abducted by a carful of strangers as she walked home one night. She fought and screamed until they kicked her out. Speeding away, they ran over her ankle and left her with a lifetime of physical and emotional pain.
This is the same woman who said nothing, who could say nothing as her boss and his friends se*ually harassed her for years.
This is the same woman who married one of those friends.
When my mother views this scene, she sees her daughter overreacting. She sees me ‘making a big deal out of nothing.’ Her concerns lie more in maintaining the status quo and cradling my step-dad’s toxic ego than in protecting the shrinking three-year-old in front of her.
When I view this scene, I am both bolstered and dismayed. My own strength and refusal to keep quiet is the result of hundreds, probably thousands of years of women being mistreated, and their protests ignored. It is the result of watching my own mother suffer quietly at the hands of too many men. It is the result of my own mistreatment and my solemn vow to be part of ending this cycle.
It would be so easy to see a little girl being taught that her wishes don’t matter. That her body is not her own. That even people she loves will mistreat and ignore her. And that all of this is “okay” in the name of other people, men, having fun.
But. What I see instead is a little girl watching her mama. I see a little girl learning that her voice matters. That her wishes matter. I see a little girl learning that she is allowed and expected to say no. I see her learning that this is not okay.
I hope my mom is learning something, too.
Fighting the patriarchy one grandpa at a time.”
~ By Lisa Norgren

Philippa111

There is something about the often still ongoing male sense of entitlement that, especially this generation of men, thought it their 'right' to touch women's bodies where and when they pleased.

So disrespectful!

Even if this behaviour is now driven by dementia it's still not acceptable. In this instance I believe it was sexually motivated as he said ,'I didn't see your husband there'. The woman, you, of course, being the 'property' of the husband.

Yes, indeed, why should women have to always be the ones to remove themselves from these guys. If he tries it on again I'd be telling him in no uncertain terms to get lost, in a very loud voice.

Once when I was in a very crowded carriage on the Metro in Paris I heard a woman say in a big loud voice to a man who was groping her to get his hands off her. The man had to do the next bit of the journey in shame until the next stop where he quickly got off. I thought that woman was very brave and hopefully that man learned a lesson.

Women have been silent for far too long!

Hear, hear!

What I find so irritating about this kind of thing is the way it's dismissed, by both men and women, so readily, because it's not a full-on sexual grope.

So we're admonished to "not take it so seriously"; "it was only a joke / bit of teasing / just a bit of fun" / "doesn't mean anything", etc, etc. Or we're advised to tolerate it because, meh, it's just a man being silly and that's what old men are like sometimes - so just keep out of the way...

And this is the reason why men feel they have the right to touch a woman if they feel like it in a way that I'm pretty sure most of them would never do to another male acquaintance. Nor would they do it to a woman of a higher social 'standing'. If they were friends with a man from the locality who was, for example, the secretary of the local Rotary, or a counsellor, or some town / village 'big-wig'... would they get hold of his wife and give her a tickle? No, they wouldn't because they would respect / acknowledge the boundaries.

That's why I'm irritated by this kind of thing. And just because the 'victim' is an older woman, or the 'handy' man is an older man, does not make it excusable.

I wouldn't make a big scene, probably wouldn't even mention it to my husband if it were me - but I'd certainly make it clear in no uncertain terms that he should in future keep his hands off me. Then I wouldn't need to avoid him - he'd probably avoid me.

I was painfully assaulted at a work colleague's evening wedding reception.

I was just walking back from the loo when the new bridegroom, whom I hardly knew, reached up my skirt and pinched me hard and painfully between my legs. It was a hot summer's evening and I was just wearing knickers, not tights.

In the split second afterwards, I let him walk off without saying anything. I didn't want to ruin my work colleague's wedding day (she would surely find out his true colours soon enough, besides which I had to work alongside her every day), and when I rejoined my husband, I didn't dare tell him as he would have tackled the bridegroom and probably punched him. I have never mentioned it to anyone until now.

It was painful and such a shock, and I was absolutely furious but I just let it go.

There is something about the often still ongoing male sense of entitlement that, especially this generation of men, thought it their 'right' to touch women's bodies where and when they pleased.

So disrespectful!

Even if this behaviour is now driven by dementia it's still not acceptable. In this instance I believe it was sexually motivated as he said ,'I didn't see your husband there'. The woman, you, of course, being the 'property' of the husband.

Yes, indeed, why should women have to always be the ones to remove themselves from these guys. If he tries it on again I'd be telling him in no uncertain terms to get lost, in a very loud voice.

Once when I was in a very crowded carriage on the Metro in Paris I heard a woman say in a big loud voice to a man who was groping her to get his hands off her. The man had to do the next bit of the journey in shame until the next stop where he quickly got off. I thought that woman was very brave and hopefully that man learned a lesson.

Women have been silent for far too long!

I would say in your instance, which sounds quite trivial, - ‘get a life’!

Sometimes a 'jocular' little tickle from a man you don't know all that well is a prelude to a little further over-familiarity - it happens frequently. It happened to me.

And I think it's quite rude to tell people to "get a life" - apart from the fact that it's also rather juvenile.

Baggs I love that! I’ll have to use it with MrC

I doubt if the op is even reading this.
She didn’t come back, did she?

You could use a quote from ^The Rime of the Ancient Mariner^:

"Hold off! Unhand me, grey-beard loon!"

I think people take this sort of thing with very elderly people too seriously. It happened to me when I was in my 50s in the early 1990s, when I was invited to stay at a friends cottage with her for a couple of days. She had brought her elderly father along and when she wasn’t around, he attempted to hug me and kiss me. I just moved away, and was amused, I didn’t say anything to him. There was no ill feeling and I never mentioned it to my friend. He only tried once, and I just made sure that I wasn’t standing near him again in those 2 days. Since then of course we’ve had this ‘Me too’ explosion which is a bit different.

I would say in your instance, which sounds quite trivial, - ‘get a life’!

Why didnt you tell him to sod off?
Dont let him spoil an activity you clearly enjoy, I would have told my husband.
If he does it again look him straight in the eye and say " if you want to keep that hand get it away from me"

I wouldn't even tickle another woman in the ribs if I didn't know her extremely well. And I bet the old fool wouldn't have done this to a man if, for example, the husband had a brother or friend along with him and his wife.

He was taking liberties with her because she's a woman and he's probably done it before with other women.

And the more women make excuses for these men, they will continue to do it.

We teach our children not to accept inappropriate touching, but somehow it's OK when you're old?

OK, so he didn't make a "pass" - but he was being over-familiar. And I'm sure he was aware of it, hence the comment about her husband.

I’m afraid lots of older men still think they are the young buck of yesteryear, when “not safe in taxis” was prevalent. Their sexual urge does not dim, even when the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak…
My regular lift to a drama society became such a pain, groping etc, I had to be firm to stop it and it was a pity as I enjoyed his company otherwise.
I feel for the OP if this really is of a sexual nature, as it causes a slight atmosphere she could do without.

kircubbin2000

A few years ago after a party hubby and his friend were escorting his cousin and me home on a dark night. The friend managed to put his hand inside my bra and the cousin later told me his other hand was in hers. I don't know why neither of us said anything but when we told hubby he said we must have been mistaken as friend would never have done that on purpose! Again a well respected manager.

I know it’s outrageous, but this made me laugh out loud 😂

dizzygran

It is a form of sexual abuse but I have experienced women flirting with my husband in front of me. I have a friend who lost his wife a few years ago and within a short time was inundated with food being taken round - offers of meals etc, so it works both ways. Ignore it, but if it happens again point out that his behaviour is unacceptable and cut him dead.

Oh dear, this old trope. I remember being at a dinner for one of my friend's big birthdays. The woman sitting next to me told me much the same about single women, who she perceived as flirting with her husband in front of her. I looked across the table at her husband and thought (too well mannered to say it), "Really! You poor sap having to deal with all that low self-esteem". Later she told me her husband judged a "housewife" by how clean the loo was when he used it".

Seriously, would anyone want either these women or their other halves in their lives? It's pathetic. I do wonder what century some people live in

You really should have stopped at "it's a form of abuse" dizzygran. That made your point so much better than the "I'm frightened I'll loose the old man I've clung on to for years" line.