Husband and DIL don’t get along so we don’t visit our son or grandchildren

Norah That resonates with me. Our sons needs in this. He needs to know we love him and his children. I think that should be my focus and my DH’s. We both love him and them. Thank you for that. Perhaps we should just follow his guidance. Flowers

Should I begin having direct contact with the children?

Of course not. You strengthen your relationship with your son. He is the person in this drama who matters, he is your conduit to his family.

Needadvice

By begging I meant asking her to talk to me as a friend.

Or maybe not a friend, but just to talk.

Ok Needy I misunderstood your meaning

Or maybe not a friend, but just to talk.

By begging I meant asking her to talk to me as a friend.

Needadvice I hope that there can be a good outcome for you all.

Needadvice you can only try

If there is anything I've learned in life while dealing with family issues it's that, if you can come out the other side knowing you have handled yourself with dignity and compassion towards the other party, it's far easier to move forward and heal, whatever the outcome is.

Needadvice well done for trying. I am glad you have found a way forward within the suggestions made.

One thing I would say though is begging is not usually a successful part of an adult conversation about problems. I totally understand the sense of desperation that leads to "begging" but I would suggest avoiding it if you can.

Focus on asking questions, listening carefully, expressing views kindly and thinking carefully about what has been said. That way seems the best chance for all involved to consider their own responsibilities to themselves, each other and the children. I truly hope you can find a way through x

Violet Sky I do think that if there is another specific " event" similar to as described by the OP, then it would be best for that specific event to be addressed by a direct conversation and careful listening regarding the specifics , the behaviours and the reasons. “

If and when an incident happens again I will try to bring all adults together to talk, without the children if possible ( though they seem to be her main audience). I tried for hours to sympathize, love, beg, talk to her for hours over the last event, the %18 year old comment when sure was 42), but she kept crying and wouldn’t talk.

Thank you for all of your kind suggestions. I am now 77 and I’ll try them all. Love to each and every one of you.

I find the use of the word 'appear' diplomatic rather than interesting.

Smileless2012

Yes indeed and that can be the case for the parents or the GP's. Communication needs to be desired by all concerned and it does appear in this particular case, that the d.i.l. is unwilling and/or incapable of communicating effectively and calmly.

I agree Smileless that the desire to have a relationship does not seem reciprocal from what the OP has told us. I think that is why I feel that an attempt at communication needs to start from when an "event" happens, if it does. It may lead to discussing past events as well but who knows.

Indeed, better communication in the past MIGHT have avoided this situation VS butvas things are where they are it's no longer really relevant except as a possible consideration for moving forward

Needadvice I hope that you can find a way forward for yourself from all the advice given 💐

Appearances is an interesting word

Yes indeed and that can be the case for the parents or the GP's. Communication needs to be desired by all concerned and it does appear in this particular case, that the d.i.l. is unwilling and/or incapable of communicating effectively and calmly.

How can that be known if communication doesn't happen?

I think it was Hithere who mentioned death by papercuts

So many things can seem small and inconsequential to others until they are all put together and you see how much blood the person has actually lost and why they are running around screaming for help

Yes very true, but the relationship needs to be reciprocal and it doesn't look as if that's what the OP's d.i.l. wants.

Yes I see what you are saying Madgran

Communication would have been much easier before this point dealing with things in the moment.

Maybe a better thing to do is communicate about how to have a better relationship in future. Maybe past problems would be addressed but then they would be addressed as examples rather than ongoing arguments. Whether Dad would be up for that or not, mum should definitely try

The best way to have a good relationship with the grandchildren is to have a good relationship with the parents

VioletSky

We have different advice

One involves communicating and finding a way to address and work through issues

One involves allowing OP to speculate behind her son and daughter in laws back and doesn't actually ever address or resolve issues

This is why so many families have problems, they don't listen to problems, they dont take time to understand that even if their perception of events are different, the other person is hurt and then they can never be accountable or apologise for their part in those problems...

Communication is key in many of these situations

If anyone truly believes that children they raised do not know what they are thinking or saying behind the scenes while they use manipulation and fakeness to get what they want out of the relationship (usually access to the grandchildren) then I just don't know what to say

Because without direct communication that speculation will be going both ways and the situation will likely end in estrangement

Generally I would absolutely agree with you Violet as I always tend to advocate open communication and careful listening. In this particular case I feel there are some aspects that make it better for the OP to wait and to take what is offered at the present moment. I certainly wouldn't advocate speculation about the reasons, as you say that gets nowhere generally

I do think that if there is another specific " event" similar to as described by the OP, then it would be best for that specific event to be addressed by a direct conversation and careful listening regarding the specifics , the behaviours and the reasons. I think this might create better communication than going back over past events etc.

So I suppose we agree but with a slightly different angle really 😏

Why does the OP keep referring to DIY? (As opposed to DIL) Is it a typo or some sort of code for something else?

Is this for real? If it is, it's way too complex a situation to be addressed via social media, where all your likely to see is one side of the "story" anyway. Over and out.

I don't think anyone here is 'allowing' Needadvice to do anything VS. She's not seeking permission, she's asked for suggestions and advice which are being given.

Who are you referring too in your post when you mention the use of "manipulation and fakeness to get what they want out of the relationship (usually access to the grandchildren)"?

It sounds as if you're referring to GP's.

Sorry there is no solution
Keep DH away from DIL
Accept that is the way she is and make the best of it
Hopefully the GC will remain in contact when they got older.
Find other interests to fill your time if you need to.

Don’t try and fix it with her. You will never win.
Continue seeing your son and grandchildren on your turf.
Never, ever, say anything about DIL to anyone, especially your son.
Try not to focus on the problem. Find other things to occupy you.
Then wait it out. Nothing lasts forever.
Children get older and have their own minds. Marriages end.
You’re not the first in this situation and you won’t be the last.
Never ever go for confrontation.

We have different advice

One involves communicating and finding a way to address and work through issues

One involves allowing OP to speculate behind her son and daughter in laws back and doesn't actually ever address or resolve issues

This is why so many families have problems, they don't listen to problems, they dont take time to understand that even if their perception of events are different, the other person is hurt and then they can never be accountable or apologise for their part in those problems...

Communication is key in many of these situations

If anyone truly believes that children they raised do not know what they are thinking or saying behind the scenes while they use manipulation and fakeness to get what they want out of the relationship (usually access to the grandchildren) then I just don't know what to say

Because without direct communication that speculation will be going both ways and the situation will likely end in estrangement

Great advice Madgran.

This is a no win situation for you Needadvice and better not to address the matter with them, especially with your d.i.l.