toxic relationship harming grandchildren

Can you look after them by yourself to give them some peace and stability? If your daughter is going to work, has she factored in child care? or improving her qualifications if she needs to? Without criticising her use of the phone, can you involve her in the play so she has to abandon it? or ask her in a calm moment what her thoughts are on children having smart phones? As for her STBXH - it sounds as if separation is a good idea, but I would help your daughter by thinking it through with her - ask her questions about how she sees it going. Follow up with more questions "will that work?" rather than "that won't work". Stop when she gets antsy. It is hard.

Please don’t dismiss the possibility of the children having ADHD or autism if their parents have identified these as possibilities. The relationship may well be awful and very stressful for the children, but they could be neurodivergent as well - the two things are not exclusive. If any of the children do have undiagnosed needs and difficult behaviour that will be an added strain on your daughter and her marriage. It sounds like there is a lot of unhappiness, criticism and blame flying around - and if you can stay out of that bit of it you’ll have a better chance of helping your daughter and your grandchildren. It sounds like they all need your support. Speaking as a grandmother who brought up two of my autistic grandchildren for 8 years, I know how hard it can be to deal with other people’s disbelief and judgement on top of the day to day challenge of looking after children who are different and who don’t necessarily benefit from ‘normal’ parenting. Good luck to you all.

Thank you for your wisdom and experience shared. I am dismissing nothing here and fully support the chance of ADHD or autism being diagnosed as they can get appointments. It just feels like that is the statement being hung on the children for their behaviour when sometimes I feel they are scared and want to be heard.

Thank you for your reply and advice. I frequently offer to have the children to give a break but there is reluctance from her possibly to do with knowing that I still have to work too and not wanting to take advantage. Always running home to mum and dad has been flung at her so many times too. She is looking at childcare and knows that I can do school runs etc. She is very independent, something I don't want to feel like I am taking away from her, she gets enough verbal stuff about not being good enough. I will keep trying to ask the right questions as appropriate but she is very aware that we, as parents, do not like the way she is treated and have no time for her other half. When she has broken down and admitted things are wrong she sees it as her failure, not his.

I agree that in many instances -- that is the statement being hung on the children for their behaviour when sometimes I feel they are scared and want to be heard -- my opinion, too many are parent labeled currently.

Children would rather come from a broken home than live in one

So if the answer is him moving out help him with that..be it looking for somewhere for him to move to or even helping him financially to move out

It will be money well spent because it will end everyone's misery

Also sometimes you are helping loads by just bring present..helping with the load and being there with the grandchildren

I think you already sound very supportive and I’m sorry for all the issues you’ve been caught up in, I think your DD is making the decision in the circumstances.

Just be there physically and emotionally and if needed and can help, then do.

I wish you all luck

*right decision!

Just wanted to add that this “coming and going” of Daddy plus the rows will have unsettled the children and it’s worth you DD having a word at school to let them know what’s happening.

I feel for you.We are going through something similar ourselves with our DD and her partner. They are splitting up and tbh now we're now relieved after years of what we could all see was developing into a toxic relationship. But we've try to stay supportive without being critical and interfering.It's not easy is it ?Somethimes I've felt like a punchbag with DDs moods but really its just been her unhappiness and reluctance to break up the childrens home.I absolutely know the treading on eggshells feeling!My heart aches for the children and the atmosphere in the home .He has said he will move out but despite a good job he has no money for a deposit as he's racked up credit card debts our DD didn't know about.Really that was the final straw along with his general laziness in the home and many other things .I wish we had enough money to just help our daughter buy him out of the house but we don't Because now we think he's going to be awkard about finding somewhere.
Like you Remah they live close so at least we can offer help little and often. DD does work very hard and do I do loads of washing, some school runs, holiday care etc.
Dh and I just try to be a calm ,consistent place of love and patience with the children. And our other DDs are great and help too.Do you have any other support for yourself?
But Carmens comment that children would rather come from a broken home than live in one is brilliant. Thank you !I will carry that thought forward.And keep reminding myself they are not the only ones going through this and little ones can be amazingly resilient especially if they have other family to love and support them.
Wishing you the best at a difficult time.

Ps I meant it's NOT easy earlier !

What a horrible situation for you all.
At present your daughter is dealing with four children; the three she gave birth to and her husband, who is refusing to accept any responsibility for his problems and actively undermining his wife when she attempts to do so. She is right to ask him to go , and sooner rather than later; the smoking weed is a large danger signal.
You are doing all the right things to help; listening, looking after the children and trying to be non-judgemental. She will be exhausted with three young children and a dead-weight husband plus the worry about the future and the break-up of the marriage; threats about gaining custody and her being an unfit parent are without substance but doesn't stop the hurt and apprehension.
I agree with you about not attributing the children's behaviour to ADHD and autism when the volatile household situation will account for most of it, but necessary to discuss it with the school, who will be aware of the home situation however well parents think they have concealed it.
Your daughter is sensible in looking for work and I hope she finds a job she enjoys; it will help her self-esteem and give her a break from home worries, but it will be tiring, and help with practical child care essential, as her selfish and totally self-centred husband clearly will be obstructive.
You seem to me to be doing all the right things and hopefully once your daughter has embarked on ending the marriage she will see a way ahead and be less temperamental. Stick with her behaviour for the time being; the time for some home-truths about phones and walking on eggshells will come later. (I was that daughter once and not nearly as appreciative of the support I received from my parents at the time as I should have been. )
There is a way through for you all, but it will not be easy.

Eazybee I think you've hit the nail on the head. After my ex and I split my brother in-law explained my predicament succinctly suggesting I started with three children and two grew up.

I can so relate to your daughters situation and coming from a similar experience I suggest she leaves this man and starts putting her children and herself first.

It won't get any better while he is still in the household. She needs your support especially that she is doing the right thing by letting him go. As others have said it won't be easy for any of you initially but in the long term things will improve.

I studied for a diploma once my ex left and found solid employment fairly quickly in the early childhood sector. Our two sons were 16 and ll years of age when he left and are now parents themselves, happily married and good fathers and providers. Eventually it became obvious to our boys that there father was incapable of putting others first. He was and still is a selfish man, who could be described as narcissistic.

Good luck to you both, keep the kids close and always remind them how much they are loved.