Not seeing grandchildren

As *Elowen33" says the child may well make her own mind up about seeing her father as she grows up. I have a friend whose ex-wife (30 years ago) was equally manipulative when they split up and he didn't see his boys for 15 years, but now as adults the boys and he have a fantastic relationship - and with his GCs.

Of course, he missed all their childhood milestones which could not be replaced.

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She is possibly angry and using the children to hurt their father, sadly it is common. Hopefully when she is calmer things will settle down even if it is only because she wants some free time. As the children get older they will ask to spend time with your side of the family, it will be difficult to ignore a child's request and not give reasons. They will form their own opinions of their father and if she bad mouths him will soon work out what she is doing.

Very sad when children are used as weapons, it is a short window though as from about 10 upwards they can form their own opinions and loudly make them known, then there is a lot of life to have a relationship with him.

GC has his name.

Yes he is.

Ah.
Is he registered as the father?

They were never married. My son has such a small allowance of time because this is what the court agreed, 'crumbs from the table' is what we were told.
Every time he asks for Chrstmas and birthdays from the court but they never discuss it. They always recommend the parents sorting it out between themselves, which they should do but it never happens because she knows she has all the control.
He is frightened to ask for any more time from her.

Strangely if the court approves it she will comply. It is a strange game she plays.
She doesn't have a choice.

Access is sorted out during divorce. Why does your son have such a small allowance of time?
Why does he not insist on alternate Christmas and Birthday access?

He could go for an interim order in Family Court which would give him official pretty immediate access to his children. Child arrangement orders through the FC are awful when parents cannot agree. Children are not considered at all it seems. They suffer.

My daughter had an awful time as her ex would not agree anything pushing through the FC which was stressful and expensive. Courts now do not favour mums our experience is if a dad wants 50% childcare he will get it. Even if he is as in our case a recreational coccaine user over 16 year period. A dubious negative drug test was ignored. Four years on my GC are unhappy with the time they spend with daddy and it is all about punishing my daughter for leaving him. Going back to FC isn’t an option as too expensive and he will lie again.

Life is pretty unfair. I learnt grandparents have no rights. The FC does not follow up on the carnage following their decision. Our GC suffer my heart is broken by the system and my GC suffer.

My advice to your son is go through the FC as he will get access to his children and you will too when they are with him. It will be un negotiable. Really sad to go this route tho. My daughter tried so hard to give reasonable access to her ex 3 nights a week but he wanted more and doesn’t cope. They suffer separation anxiety.

Yes, it very dangerous for the child, but the FC seem unable to see through the RP's manipulation.

So far my GD seems a bright and happy child since we had contact with her, but she is still very young. She has begun to ask questions though, which my son deals with very well but who knows what nonsense her mother feeds her?

I remain hopeful for her but deeply cynical of the system.

She may well find when the children are older that she will reap what she has shown keepingquiet. Keeping children away from a parent they love is a dangerous game to play.

It's a blackmail thing on the part of the RP. They often threaten to withdraw all contact from the NRP as a means of keeping control, especially of younger children.

Sometimes FC is the last resort for NRPs who haven't seen their kids for months.

For my own son it has taken three and half years of FC and he still only has a few hours a week. Now he's back seeking overnight stays because his ex doesn't allow it.

Stangely if the court approves it she will comply. It is a strange game she plays.

He has never spent time with his child at Christmas or birthdays. That's how vindictive she is.

I am surprised that the father cannot claim access to his children.
When I was teaching we would occasionally receive letters from a separated parent telling us that the father (usually, but not always) was not allowed access to the child. It had to be pointed out that only the production of a verifiable court order could prevent this, and we did have a mother who persistently hung around school attempting to make contact with her child, which was forbidden for very sound reasons.

A dear friends daughter recently seperated from her husband in the states and over there you’re advised not to send the children to the fathers without a parenting plan in place (visitation etc) because until one is in place with the courts he wouldn’t have to return them to the mother at all until one was agreed upon legally.

Thank you for all your comments. I really appreciate them.
We know the children would certainly be better off seeing both sets of parents and families. I just wish DIL could see this. I think she deep down knows this but just wants to keep punishing us all but especially my son. 😟

I would be inclined to go to family court and involve cafcass if I was your son ....if did is behaving unreasonably now it will only continue ...a court order makes contact official and non negotiable

Children seem to be used a lot in similar situations.
It’s a shame because I’m sure there’s research that suggests they are nearly always better off keeping contact with family from both sides.
Would be interesting to hear if there are any adults on here who were prevented from seeing relatives when their parents split up and how they feel about that now although I guess that’s another thread.

I was divorced 25 years ago when my 2 children were 10-14 years old. My ex was verbally awful to me and to them, both personally and disparaged me to them. He made many threats to the point I moved us to a home anonymously for our safety. He wanted everything fought in court with attorneys, which made it tremendously expensive. If I learned one thing in American courts, all they want is disposition and preservation. Dispose of this matter quickly as there are 300 in line behind you waiting their turn in front of the judge. And preservation. The actions and decisions by both attorneys & judges (And there were a total of 10 by the time the divorce was final.) are so middle of the road, what is right and fair is not an issue, just in the middle so their actions/decisions seem unquestionable--and they keep their job. One thing I learned after all the dust settled. Kids process what they see/hear with their current maturity. BUT, as adults they will reprocess those memories with the maturity and understanding of an adult. I hated having to "share" them with him in visitation, but now as adults, they see him for what he really is and what he did to us all. We have a loving relationship and they washed their hands of him. He's the loser.

The rights of the child should be paramount and they should be able to see whom they want. Sadly this isn't the case and very often the mother's rights seem to come first.

Yes, let's hope not. FC is a nightmare.

Keepingquiet.. its with the solicitors and they are hoping it won’t go to the family court but who knows with my DIL.
I will ask my son about the form.
Thank you for the information and offer of more info. Much appreciated

Has your son filed a C100 form for access? You don't say if he has been to family court yet but he really should.

Most parents represent themselves in the family court, as solicitors are ridiculously expensive and often make things worse.

Please feel free to message me if you want for info, though I know every case is different.

Thank you Babs03,she is certainly punishing him and sadly i think she will for a very long time. But my son will carry on until he rightly sees his children.I just don’t understand her.
I appreciate your comments 😊

Philippa111… thank you for your comments. I definitely think someone should speak to her but Im not sure who.Plus she will say she is in the right regardless of hurting her children. I hope in the future she might look back and realise how cruel she was.
(Probably not🙁)
I appreciate you replying.

I think it is so sad that parents whose love has turned bitter use their children as pawns to 'punish' the other person.

I saw this years ago with some friends whose relationship turned into a battle and their child suffered. I told them off and they did drop all the bad behaviour for the sake of their daughter.

Sounds like someone needs to have a word with your DIL. Is there anyone who might be able to do that? Love can so easily turn to blind hatred... she needs to get some perspective and be made aware of the consequences of her actions.

Is so unjust and unfair to not consider a father’s rights to see his children as well as the grandparents etc. I believe your DiL is punishing your son by making this difficult, and in so doing is punishing her own children who want to see their father and grandparents.
Your son should keep on asking about the contact order, I think will be a question of banging on about it until something is done.
Wishing you all the very best with this 🌺🙏🏾

Thank you Allsorts, Ive had a bad day today overthinking what could happen.
Its just taking so long and I worry about the GC and my son. Its so wrong keeping a father away from his children for no reason.
I appreciate you replying.☺️