Daughter troubling me

I’m very close to my daughter and get on well with my future SIL but I wouldn’t ever comment on any aspect of their relationship. If they are having an up and down time my D may confide in me and my usual advice to her is to listen to each other and find time to have some time out together (ie get.babysitters round -me or her future MIL). I try and just offer a sympathetic ear and shoulder to cry on without any criticism. I’m very lucky with my D (even if they considering going to Aus-whole different thing 😢) - be very wary about making accusations- support is far better.

Hi Drina - First of all I'm so sorry that your worried about your daughter .
I've encountered this type of control so many times before.
Two of my friends have husbands ,who exhibit jealousy towards their family and friends.
One of daughters also had a possessive partner.
A person like this is extremely unhappy and insecure and regards everyone as a threat to their wellbeing.
The only person who can fix it is your daughter.
Along as nothing untoward happens to your daughter and grandchildren-just leave things as they are.
Be there when she needs you.

That does sound an unpleasant remark about someone else.
And I'm not Egyptian.

Do your D and SiL have the same cultural background? I ask only because some time ago a friend was going through a sticky patch with her SiL, who wouldn't visit or really have any contact. Turned out that he had got offended at something she said early on in their relationship and turned it into a 'your mother doesn't respect me or like me so I won't have anything to do with her' situation. He is Egyptian, and very close to his family, especially her mother. He had done something for his mother and friend had said something like 'Gosh, doesn't she do that herself?' which he took as a sneer at his mother. It was really an innocent remark coming from surprise more than anything, and quickly forgotten, but ended up causing all sorts of pain.

Thankyou for your messages. I am indeed dancing a fine line and have to accept it in order to see the children I adore. Am trying to explain to her (in a round about way) how I feel but so careful. I still don’t think she’s mature enough to see and hope one day she will get it. She def changes when he’s around so my solution is to avoid. What predicaments we find ourselves in.

Don’t make plans for them,ask if they want to go.I would be furious if someone commandeered my family time.
My SIL can be a bit like this he works very long hours often abroad so his family time is precious .As is his alone time .
Please let your daughter and her family live THEIR lives…their way.
As to having the same relationship you had with your mother? I don’t why you think your daughter has to mirror your life.I looked after my mother for 12 years she tried to take over my life even complaining about me loooking after my first grandchild “when I should according to her be spending ever day with her
I never want to do that to my kids …maybe because I,m not needy I see them a lot .

I feel for you as I , too, am affected by this problem.
I find my daughter cold and distant and I can honestly say that , sadly, I don’t really enjoy her company.
I , too, suspect that it comes from the husband who is never very nice to me but I don’t want to rock the boat as I don’t want to lose access to the grandchildren whom I love.
We are doing fewer things together, my daughter and I and it hurts .
She has already warned me not to expect to be invited on their holiday next year .
I would agree with the other posters that you need to step back and do more for yourself and if you have a good relationship with your husband, then enjoy that as that is not an option for me as my husband is in a care home and things are difficult to say the least .
I hope this post offers you some consolation as you are not on your own but I know it’s easier said than done .
Keep smiling and good luck

It's so sad, both my Mum & Dad and my in-laws used to help neighbours & friends regularly, and, if family needed anything, they would drop everything to help. We appreciated this, I don't see that they were in anyway making doormats of themselves, helping others came naturally to them & was a priority. My parents were farmers, so they were just as busy as today's "both parents work" families.
I find 'I mistakenly thought she would be what I was to my mother' so poignant - you aren't taking for granted that your daughter will care & help when you are going through the health scares you have, but you know how you would have been with your mother and the difference hurts.
I know "me time" is supposed to be so important for well-being, but actually, knowing you've really helped someone through a hard time is more rewarding than any amount of spa treatments or "me" activities. Maybe it's a question of balancing the two.

It has helped seeing all different points of view. Thanks. I see now it’s done me no good stressing each day. I’ve got to the point I really don’t enjoy her company. Which is a terrible thing for a mother to say. I noticed a problem with SIL way back (once on my MIL birthday age 80 he arrived at the door of the venue of her party to collect my daughter but wouldn’t come in or join in). I worried then. He would never come to our house at Xmas she always had to go to his.. I booked a weeks holiday (locally at the beach) for everyone this summer - he stayed 1 night, and booked their own holiday abroad to coincide for 2 days later so daughter only stayed 3 days of a full week. I sent pantomime tickets for the family, he didn’t go (as the previous year) so MIL went instead of which I only found out weeks later. I can’t help feeling hurt. I never go unannounced, I never encroach on weekends. We used to have our hair done together as a treat and have a glass of wine afterwards - she goes on her own now. I will take advice and try to only do what is necessary - for the sake of the little ones who I’ve brought up since babies while they worked. Gosh this situation isn’t doing my mental health any good.

I have a couple of thoughts, whilst it could be coercive control from her partner, it also might just be that you’ve done so much for her over the years she’s forgotten you’re a person too and is taking you for granted. I would lessen contact with her, whilst still keeping in touch and seeing your grand children.

Maybe ask the whole family over, very casually, for Sunday lunch and just keep an eye on things. Say nothing. Good luck

It’s such a sad thing to be caught up in this kind of manipulation

I think it is sadly quite common

It’s so difficult to see under the covers what is going on in a relationship and the upbringing of the husband may play a part

I have every sympathy as I’ve had a similar situation and am also struggling to find the best path whilst building up my own activities /life after giving a lot -probably too much/over a long time

User138562

I think "coercive control" is unlikely based on the info here. She's pulling away but that doesn't mean she is being controlled.

I'm sure if my mother came here and talked about me pulling away, coercive control would be blamed. It's so far from the truth it is laughable.

I think that it makes total sense for a married adult child with kids to pull away from their parents. It's the natural order of things. Of course dynamics will change as her priorities change.

It sounds like she isn't living up to your expectations of her and maybe that is leading to further pullback. She has many other demands that are higher priority in her life now.

Let her be and focus on what you can control. You're allowed to set boundaries for how you will react if treated a certain way. If you want to stop providing help or change in another way to protect yourself than do it! That's what you have agency over so take advantage of that.

As a former people pleaser, I know that there's a point when people pleasing becomes a burden on your loved ones. You need to start pleasing yourself. If you pull away maybe she will reach out and meet you in the middle and maybe she won't. But keep imposing your expectations on her and she will pull further away.

Also, I'm shocked at the willingness of some people to claim abuse is occuring from the husband with so little information and nothing of the wife's perspective. It's not impossible but there is no real evidence that he is doing this against her wishes. Perhaps she wants help making distance from her mother. That's what I needed from my own husband.

I don't agree. The info regarding what is happening does clearly suggest that coercive control is a possibility that at least should be considered by the OP in deciding a way forward for herself. Mentioning it does not mean a definitive judgement on the husband even if one thinks it is likely (which I do from the info given by OP) - it is just helping the OP to consider various aspects whilst deciding the best way forward in the situation. However I do take your point that the wife may want her husband to do what he does; who knows; we can all suggest considerations for the OP who will then decide for herself

Drina, I gather from your opening post that there is more than one element to your concern about your daughter. You feel she might be, at least, dominated by her husband. You feel your daughter is distancing you, your husband and her brother, and this affects your contact with your grandchild. You feel hurt that your daughter’s in-laws receive preferential treatment. You also say that your daughter lies.

I agree with others that none of these issues will be helped by further input from you now. If, instead, you back off, but keep in casual contact with your daughter so that she knows you’re there for her if she needs you, relations may gradually improve between you.

Whatever is going on in your daughter’s life, remember, it’s her life, and she has to navigate her own way through it, and it does sound as though she may be dealing with various conflicting issues at the moment. You may be a casualty of this, as she may not have the same control over things relating to her husband and his parents as she does with her own parents, for example, so by taking a back seat now you may help to clarify things for her. She may see more clearly where the problems lie.

I agree with those who think your D is being coercively controlled Drina and if this is the case, sadly there's nothing you can do apart from making sure that your D knows you are there for her, which you can do while being less available.

As M0nica has posted At times the kindest way to help them is to stand back and let them feel the full force of the results of their problem. Standing back and being less available may enable your D to see that her relationship with her H is not all it should be.

It sounds very much to me as if the controlling husband is behind it all. She may come to that realisation herself one day and leave the marriage. She will need you then. Bear in mind that in such relationships, eventually the children are old enough to notice and resist a bully father and that when she sees her children affected is sometimes the point at which the mother has had enough.

Do you have any contact with her old friends (or their mothers)? It might be useful to approach them discreetly and say you are a little worried about DD these days and ask them if they have noticed any changes.

I have wondered if there's any way you can get a reassuring message to her meanwhile, without him knowing ( he may monitor her phone and open her mail. )

with words to the effect

"I am sorry we don't see much of you any more, and am guessing that perhaps there's some problem we don't know about. I just want you to remember that we love you always and whatever happens, we are here to support and help you in every possible way without question or judgement. "

Drina. My first post on GN some years ago was similar to your situation but in my case it was my daughter's friend's family.

I thought we were close doing lots of things together - shopping, theatre, lunches etc. When out granddaughter came along it was the three of us doing stuff. Then it suddenly stopped. All of it. I was invited to nothing. If I suggested anything she was too busy. She would go out regularly with her friend and her friend's mother. I was never invited. She knew all her friend's mother's friends and all the mother's business but rarely asked how we were.

I was devastated. She treated me appallingly to be honest. It was only when she fell out with the friend that things began to improve. I hope they do for you too.

Drina01

I think you’re all probably right - unfortunate as it’s not in my makeup to be uncaring - but think I have to reassess my thinking. Am stressed still today - it’s hard. It’s almost as though she’s been stolen by another family.
Helps to talk.

No one is asking you to be uncaring, on the contrary, often parents care most when they step away.

Too often parents enable or support behaviour in their children that is harmful to the adult child: a parent, giving money to a child with addiction or, bailing out a child that keeps getting into debt. At times the kindest way to help them is to stand back and let them feel the full force of the results of their problem.

This is the situation you are now in, you have to realise that there are more ways of caring and loving our children than making door mat of yourself - and sometimes you care most by walking away.

I think "coercive control" is unlikely based on the info here. She's pulling away but that doesn't mean she is being controlled.

I'm sure if my mother came here and talked about me pulling away, coercive control would be blamed. It's so far from the truth it is laughable.

I think that it makes total sense for a married adult child with kids to pull away from their parents. It's the natural order of things. Of course dynamics will change as her priorities change.

It sounds like she isn't living up to your expectations of her and maybe that is leading to further pullback. She has many other demands that are higher priority in her life now.

Let her be and focus on what you can control. You're allowed to set boundaries for how you will react if treated a certain way. If you want to stop providing help or change in another way to protect yourself than do it! That's what you have agency over so take advantage of that.

As a former people pleaser, I know that there's a point when people pleasing becomes a burden on your loved ones. You need to start pleasing yourself. If you pull away maybe she will reach out and meet you in the middle and maybe she won't. But keep imposing your expectations on her and she will pull further away.

Also, I'm shocked at the willingness of some people to claim abuse is occuring from the husband with so little information and nothing of the wife's perspective. It's not impossible but there is no real evidence that he is doing this against her wishes. Perhaps she wants help making distance from her mother. That's what I needed from my own husband.

MOnica gave you some good advice. I think you should model the behaviour you want to see in your DD by asserting yourself and not being there as much as you were.

She may see you as a very 'caring' person and feel she also has to be that way too.

Caring is not always about doing. Sometimes it is about stepping away and allowing these adults to sort out their own lives. Yes, it is a risk for you but so is being treated so unfairly.

You have to make some choices.

I also think your daughter is being coercivally controlled. In which case I would suggest maintaining gentle contact and being available as and when she might need you IF she realises or accepts what is happening to her. I agree re don't make yourself over available but equally don't withdraw to much so you are there is and when the time comes. Having said all that you must keep your own welfare in mind too. Take care. 💐

From what I u derstand, you are involved with them in some way, and not totally cut-off. Be happy with that for the time-being and don’t rock the boat. Good luck

I think you’re all probably right - unfortunate as it’s not in my makeup to be uncaring - but think I have to reassess my thinking. Am stressed still today - it’s hard. It’s almost as though she’s been stolen by another family.
Helps to talk.

Drina01 The story you write is very sad, and like others, I think it sounds as if your daughter is in a relationship involving coercive control - and about that you can do little, except be watchful and prepared to offer unconditional uncritical help if and when it is needed.

But I will make another comment, I think you have made yourself too available to your daughter and family. I fully understand that when our children start families, we want to give them all the help we can, but when we make them the centre of our lives, giving them everything they want whether babysitting or money and being willing at every turn to do what they want, we assume the response will be reciprocal from our child, but too often it leads to us being taken for granted, used = I might say, emotionally abused, by the child we have done so much to help.

In this case, I think your SiL is extending his control to ensnare you as well. I think it is time for you to draw back, to be less available when your daughter or SiL demand help, certainly do not support them anymore financially, even when they use the children's needs to emotionally blackmail you and, as your DH and DS are clearly supportive. develop a seperate independent life that helps you to cope with this problem.

All of us want to protect our adult children as we protected them when they were tiny, but often our interference makes things worse not better. All of us have at sometime or another seen a grown -up child in trouble and had to stand back and do nothing because getting involved will make the problem worse not better. Standing and watching is not easy.

But I think you need to start distancing, but be watchful.

It did help a little. I can't believe how tolerant I've been but never wanted to rock the boat. I mistakenly thought she would be what I was to my mother. I couldn't do enough. She comes from a nice family but she can be awful towards my granddaughter when she should be working through things like schoolwork and misunderstandings. (She's only turned 11 and started high school and seems to be having a hard time). Am due to go tomorrow after I've finished my part time work to pick children up but think that's all I will do and bring them back for tea and homework at mine. I don't actually think I can go round. May get DH to take them back. SI L seems to be coming back earlier and earlier from work so I have no reason to stay. It's as if I've been used when they were little and I have no function any further.

I hope that getting it off your chest does help.After talking with friends the other week I realise that the behaviour your DD exhibits is far from rare.
My advice for what it’s worth, is to back away a little and live life with your DH and any friends you may have.Spend any spare cash on yourselves. Your SIL sounds unpleasant and wants only his own family around.Your DD either doesn’t want to stand up to him or can’t.People don’t change so you have to try and enjoy life where you can.