Family

Monica I don't think OP's children are entitled, they're just busy and she's missing their company.

"I'm terrified of losing our closeness because of the lack of quality time together."

I think this is a common problem even in families where there are good relationships which is why I feel it's important to be able to talk to our children about how we feel and negotiate with them.

Foxie48 The difficulty is these problems start in childhood with parenting styles, these mothers devote themselves to their children and put their interests first when they are small and this gets carried into adulthood and you end with entitled children.

I worked on the basis that we were a family and at different times in different situations all of us had to give way to other family members priorities and in turn we would also get priority.

I spent my late afternoons driving them to classes and to visit friends and for two years they had get up earlier one day a week in school terms and have breakfast with friends and go there after school because I was doing a day release course that would give me improved professional skills that meant I got me a better paid job, from which they benefitted.

Monica thanks for saying that. I have several friends who have become quite resentful because of the demands that their children put on them. When I suggest they just say no, they are clearly worried that they will "upset" their children and it will affect their relationship. People might say "get some hobbies", spend more time with your OH" etc but none of that improves a relationship which has become unbalanced. That's why IMO it's important to put effort and time into managing and renegotiating the relationship changes that occur as your children become older and independent and it's important to find things that connect you and enhance your relationship and ensure that you actually enjoy spending time together. I'm afraid that going to the supermarket doesn't do it for me.

Esmay

Sadly this seems to be the way these days.

I know so many grandnas who feel taken for granted as they do so much childcare .
They love their grandkids .
But would like to be more appreciated and included socially .
Voicing disquiet doesn't always go down well .

I know of one grandna ,who did that .
She told her daughter I'm just useful for childcare and then I can b----r off hone .
This caused a massive row.
Her daughter felt emotionally blackmailed by her mother.
Her son in law sided with his wife .
And involved the family.
Things calmed down after a while.

Spend more time with your husband and have fun together.

Personally, I think that the grandmother you mention did exactly the right thing. What if it did cause a row, Why should be taken for a drudge and door mat and live with it without complaint?

I would never have let it get that bad before I put the brakes on. The sooner it is done, the easier it is to deal with.

The daughter thought she was being emotionally blackmailed? What did she think she had been doing to her mother all that time?

Once us three children had left home my parents had their adventures, travelled, entertained and enjoyed their relationship without their children hanging around
I’ve done the same, nurture yourself Buonamini and your partner, our children are lent to us, they have different loves now.

Sadly this seems to be the way these days.

I know so many grandnas who feel taken for granted as they do so much childcare .
They love their grandkids .
But would like to be more appreciated and included socially .
Voicing disquiet doesn't always go down well .

I know of one grandna ,who did that .
She told her daughter I'm just useful for childcare and then I can b----r off hone .
This caused a massive row.
Her daughter felt emotionally blackmailed by her mother.
Her son in law sided with his wife .
And involved the family.
Things calmed down after a while.

Spend more time with your husband and have fun together.

I had little time to spend with my parents throughout my 40’s and 50’s. Full time job and children swallowed me up. There were some evenings out with friends etc but even my relationships with my long distance friends were stretched bit thin. And I don’t think we can underestimate the additional pressure on parents now - modern parenting is a whole different ball game, with parents feeling responsible to be hands-on in ways that would never have crossed my mind.

But then things changed again - children went off to university and although I was still working, I had a bit more time. Then I dropped down to part-time and finally retired altogether and saw so much more of my parents. Our relationship hadn’t suffered and I’ve loved being able to give them support in the latter stages of the life when they really needed and appreciated it.

I wouldn’t dismiss WhatsApp - I love my friendly, funny exchanges with my daughters, or the little messages that say ‘I saw this and I thought of you’. I think they are important to our relationship and can be slipped in when they’re travelling to work or in between meetings or whatever.

If a relationship has firm foundations (and it sounds as if yours have) it will be fine. You have the time to send the little, loving messages etc. So you may still need to do a bit more of the work. You haven’t lost your daughters - they are just very busy. I think they’ll be pleased and relieved to know that you’re happy in your marriage and have a good social life. And you will have interesting things to talk about when you do get together.

I would try to plan well ahead - perhaps around birthdays etc. Get a date in the diary and arrange something easy that you can do together - a walk on a pub lunch, a trip to the seaside. Nothing that requires loads of organisation/effort/time where you can be nicely relaxed together.

i have a close relationship with my children and do not see them often. They live too far away for frequently seeing each other. I would like to see them more but accept that when children become adults, they move on and create their own lives - so I have to do that too. We are all often in touch and I do of course see them sometimes. I am sorry the OP is worried, and hope she can come to see things in a new light and feel more at ease.

And it's natural for them to see their friends, women in particular I think really need them. I think you should be happy that she has a good circle of friends. It doesn't detract from your relationship.

I remember when I left home, there was a weekly phone call from a phone box and the odd letter. Then when I married and had children with a full time job, it was very time consuming to drive for 2 hours to see my parents, it was only about 4 times a year and phone calls in between. It didn't mean I didn't love my parents, everything was just so busy. My mum never said anything at all, she was always just happy to chat and see me. When they became old and frail they had moved nearer to me and I did everything I could to support them.
Now we are the parents, and I try to look back and remember how it was and not put pressure on guilting my children. I love my weekly chats with my son who lives 2 hours away, and he pops in when he's near. I see the other more often, just popping in and out during daily life.
Hopefully their lives will calm down eventually and there will be more time for us all. I am really grateful for the relationship I have with them and the successful people they have become.

When it's pickup time for your grandchildren, plan a family meal. That will save your daughter going home to cook and give you all time to chat at the table. Nothing elaborate that takes you away to the kitchen, meals they all enjoy.

Where are the fathers?

As families expand (children, grand children etc) we all have to accept that all of us are spread over so many people and events, we do see less of people.

Once I married I saw my parents less because I had a home husband and in laws, children bit further into our time. However when my parents needed me I was there.

Now we are the top of the triangle our daughter lives very close, so she drops in and out. DSlives some distance and is married with children, who in their turn are growing up, off to university and have independent lives of their own, so we see less of them than we did, and so it goes on.

We really need to realise how lucky we are these days. There are so many ways of keeping in contact. My father was in the army we travelled the world. Our grandparents sometimes diid not see us for three years or more and only contact were those flimsy air letter forms.

I was reading a book recently by someone who, just before WW1, joined the British Colonial Offic. He was sent out to the South Pacific. He did one tour out there with his wife and grew family. When they returned home to the UK on leave. He was sent back out on a single posting and did not see his wife or children for seven years. Letters took three months to make the journey in each direction. We should count our blessings.

Hmm, you're very fortunate Bluebelle all those children and grandchildren. Many are not so fortunate, you only have to look at the Estrangement threads on GN.
There are a number of responses to the OP along the lines of 'I'm fine, I don't want anyone to look after me' and there are reasonably often, posts about disconnected families too. It's not hard to see the results of surveys about old age loneliness and it's something Age UK campaigns about. So here we have a difference of perception or opinion.
I think it's really sad that we have reached the point where jolly japes on WhatsApp are taking the place of intimacy and genuine face to face caring but there you are, some don't want more and are happy to face the prospect of dying alone or in some ghastly care home.

I think the main thing that’s changed is most of us don’t have children living nearby, my children and grandchildren are scattered all over the world really but I value chats and phone calls and photos and information I m quite undemanding about visits or encroaching on their time and I m not mourning it I m glad that they are all happy with good if demanding jobs and hopefully down time too and knowing they are busy and having a good life is absolutely enough for me
I would NEVER in a million years want any of the payback you’re talking about Granatlast the last thing I want is anybody to have to ‘look after’ or care for me or feel obliged to visit I have never ever felt abandoned, I am in close contact with all ten of my children and grandchildren (my only relatives) just not in person but I m totally happy for them that they are busy and fulfilled, what more can I want

Buonanima I think your post would represent many older parents and grandparents. The world has changed dramatically and the 24/7 long hours of work plus the many activities people are told they must undertake (eg for health) or feel they should undertake in case they miss out on some glorious activity or holiday means that everyone is absurdly 'busy'.

Many grandparents love their grandchildren and willingly spend hours looking after them but whereas in the past, this would have fostered closeness, I think now, it is often taken for granted.
It's sad to feel abandoned, there used to be a sense of payback where adult children would look after their parents in turn but somehow that has disappeared. No amount of hobbies or U3a can make up for simple companionship from those who we ought to feel closest to.

Fairislecable

Sorry that should be whatsapp- I really should check before posting 😁

Forgot about WhatsApp when I posted! It’s great! You can have one-to-ones or group chats. I love it!

Both my daughters live a distance away from us, both are in long term relationships and we see both relatively frequently with their partners. They also contact me for a chat quite regularly so I feel quite fortunate. However, I miss the relationship that we have when it's just my daughter and me so we now arrange things so that we get to spend that time together at least a couple of times a year. Last week I stayed with my daughter for three days while her partner was away, we went for a spa morning at the local college (very cheap), did a bit of shopping for me as I wanted her advice, walked her dog, she took me for lunch at a couple of places she uses and we took turns in paying and I went to a pilates class with her. I really value being part of her world for a few days and we nattered away and talked about some important issues that affect our family in privacy and with openness that would have been difficult if we had been with partners. I think managing that change in relationship when your children become independent adults is really important and deserves time and effort.

I rarely see my daughter now as she is so busy but when my sister in law died suddenly recently D flew over to surprise her dad in case he was upset. Expensive for 1 night only but she came. Same when I was in hospital last year.

Sorry that should be whatsapp- I really should check before posting 😁

I am in the same position and have realised life changes and my children do not have much free time.

We have them round for dinner at weekends or the local DS pops in on his way to take/collect grandchildren from sports and hobbies.

I do have very long chats (1hr) with myDD who lives further away roughly once a week.

The family Watts app group is brilliant for keeping updated on the minutiae of their lives, pictures of sailing, gymnastics and rugby etc and a suitable emoji response. This means when we phone we discuss all the ups and downs of life.

I have a very close relationship with my (married) daughters, who both live locally. One of them visits regularly, the other hardly ever, but we talk on the phone often. My late husband always said that one daughter, when she got married, brought her husband into our family, whereas the other daughter distanced herself slightly and started her own family. Neither is right or wrong, it’s just the way it pans out. I have always been close to my four grandchildren , and when they were little, especially, my daughters made sure we saw them often. My granddaughter now has a baby of her own and she brings him here often. She and I have always had a special bond, so that helps. I know I am very lucky, because I know this isn’t the norm. Grandparents, and especially great grandparents, often get left out when sons and daughters have busy lives and I consider myself to be fortunate.
A friend who hardly ever sees her family asked me what my secret was. All I could think of was that I have never expected anything of my family. They have busy lives and my thinking is that if they want to see me, they will make time, but they should never feel under obligation to do so. That way, I know that when they visit, it’s from choice, not duty.
I find that the less you ‘expect’ visits etc, the more you get. It works for me!

I guess if you do childcare you will see both your daughters when they do pick up and drop off and exchange a few words then?

They probably see that as very regular contact🙂

I can remember when I was working and busy with children my parents did come at the end of all the demands on me because they were independent adults that didn’t actually need me. Then when my father had a heart attack, it was work and children that had less of me. It was about juggling priorities because there was only a certain amount of me to go round!

Maybe organise a few special things throughout the year - something you are both interested in. Well in advance so they can factor it into the diary. My local beauty place does an evening pamper session with a hot tub, a massage and a glass of bubbly. Just right to fit into a busy work/family schedule.
🙂

I suspect in the nicest possible way, that you are being taken for granted. Mum has always been there. My dd always took it for granted that her grandma would be there, and she didn't visit as often as she might. That is not a criticism. My dd has two boys and works very long hours. She was devastated when her grandma died and felt so guilty for not visiting.
In your case, I would keep in touch but not expect too much. Life has a habit of getting in the way

To be a blunt I think you are being a bit not necessarily unreasonable but unrealistic
You are very very lucky to have that wonderful close relationship with your two grandchildren that’s a lot more than grannies with kids overseas or living a distance away or ‘are distanced’ get, that’s a huge bonus
Your two daughters have their own lives (probably busy lives) to lead and should be out enjoying themselves with friends partners etc etc when free from work home snd kids Be happy for them I am a strong believer that our children need to be doing stuff with their own family and friends and not worrying about us too much