Intergenerational Foundation webchat with Co-founder Angus Hanton on 9 April

I agree with every word that Galen says. I live in a 3 bedroom house, I can look after myself financially and at present I do not need care for which I would have to pay, so why should I move? If I was a burden financially on the state that would be a different matter.

Has he suggested thst his parents downsize?

I wonder how they feel about it?

All these questions, Angus!

One of the things that would stop me downsizing is the very poor choice older people are offered when it comes to alternative accommodation. For 10 years I was a volunteer home visitor with Age UK and in that period I visited older people in all kinds of sheltered and family housing. In all that time I did not see one sheltered development, public or private, that I would want to live in.

Generally speaking the rooms were small and claustrophobic, they lacked storage, failed to take into consideration that older people have interests and hobbies and need space for them and completely failed to provide any space or opportunity for men, in particular, who had what I would call 'shed hobbies', woodwork, a little DIY or any think like that. Many had no provision for accommodating visitors, or it was in short supply and difficult to book. Kitchens were pathetic, it seemed to be assumed that older people were uninterested in food and lived off ready meals ate on their laps in front of the television.

I have only once visited a development that I would even consider living in. I have a friend who lives in Hartrigg Oaks in York. This is a development pioneered by the Joseph Rowntree Trust. My friend has a 2 bed bungalow larger than the average house. Both bedrooms are large and have en-suite facilities, Her living room must be around 20 foot long and she has a kitchen with room for a table. Crucially the whole of the roof area is one large, lit space, approached by a straight staircase that could easily accommodate a stair lift. The space is designed for those who do something with their time other than watch television. My friend is an artist and uses it as a studio, other people use them as libraries, studies, music rooms, sewing rooms and workshops or even extra sleeping space for visitors. She also has an outdoor area large enough for a shed. The bungalows are designed to be easy to get round in with a wheel chair or walking frame.

I know people who live in Park homes, and no-one under 50 is allowed to live on the parks.. The ones I have visited are lovely, but they have to pay ground rent as well as council tax and a proportion of the sale price to the company if they sell. They are not allowed to put up a garden shed or grow vegetables. Or keep any animal other than a cat or very small dog.

But they are very, very poorly insulated and consequently expensive to heat and wasteful of energy rosequartz. There are also, sometimes, issues about tenure. They are cheaper than houses for a reason, or several.

Modern park homes are usually well insulated but I agree the older ones are very energy hungry. Some, if not much, of the private sheltered housing market also dips its hand in your pocket when the home is sold and one friend of mine decided to stay in her own home and not downsize because of all the financial penalties.

I have stayed in one and it was warm and cosy. I did not hear any complaints about extortionate heating bills either. Perhaps older ones are not well insulated but modern ones are, and are better designed than many more traditional bungalows. They are not cheap, considering that the price of the land is not included. Consequently, charges for ground rent etc are high and would eat into any equity acquired from selling a larger family home.
The restrictions would put me off, as would the percentage charge paid when selling. The same applies with sheltered housing, sometimes the charge is up to 20% of the sale price.

I am currently having difficulty selling a beautifully refurbished two-bedroom house at a price considerably lower than the one I paid only three years ago. What hope do I have when the time comes to sell my even more beautifully refurbished four-bedroom house – the one I used to live in? Thanks to bankers, such as Lehmans and RSB, the economy went pear-shaped and people are financially stuck (apart from MPs with their 11% pay rise and CEOs with their average 49% rise). It's not boomers holding the young families to ransom is it?

Our neighbours had to take a loss when they sold earlier this year. They had been there for five years. They are renting in the new area to get a feel for it which is a good idea unless prices suddenly shoot up.

It gives me no joy to know how much my house has increased in value over 28 years. I had no control over house prices or over the economy in general. I would rather house prices had kept pace with wages and then we would not be accused of stealing our children's future.

The only positive thing about it for me is that I hope my DC will inherit this house, unless it is 'stolen' by exorbitant care costs.

I have nothing to ask or add, excepting to say this is a fascinating discussion, and I can't imagine anyone suggesting telling me what I should be doing 're my living arrangements at this stage of my life.

I look forward to Angus' responses to the questions.

What excellent comments made on behalf of us baby boomers, they reflect how I feel and how unjust it is to blame us over 60's for the woes of some of todays youth, not all are unhappy with how life is.We were brought up to stand on our own two feet and not to expect everything on a plate, in fact we didn't have a plate so do not expect us to give up what we have worked hard for.

Fantastic discussion. Pity I have not got time to read it all and ponder on it. FlicketyB is spot on. Our rooms are used for many purposes - a study each, spare bedrooms for family members to visit, gymn etc.

I am trying to come to grips with down sizing the pros and cons by belonging/subscribing free of change to the Housing Learning and Information Network.

It was originally funded by the government, is run by Jeremy Porteus, Housing LIN C/o EAC
3rd Floor, 89 Albert Embankment London, SE1 7TP

[email protected]
Web: www.housinglin.org.uk
Email: [email protected]
Twitter: twitter.com/HousingLIN
Tel: 020 7820 8077

They hold regional meetings, which you can attend free. London Conferences which cost money however they put their sessions on the web so that one can watch the videos of the speakers contributions free of charge after the conference. I keep a folder of the papers (pdf files) on down sizing and discuss them with friends when the topic comes up.

Hope some of you may wish to follow this up.
Regards Emily.

Angus, if you have had time to read all these comments and questions, has it changed in any way your perspective of the Boomer generation and their obligations to society in general and the younger generation in particular?

Another thought. Older people occupy their homes far more than younger people. When DH and I were working we were out of the house by 8.00am at the latest and not both back until about 7.00pm. Even with children the house was empty from 8.30am to 4.00pm. In other words our house was empty and unoccupied for 12 hours a day. This pattern is normal for nearly any property where all the adults are in full time employment.

Now we are retired we spend far more time in at home. 3 or 4 days a week it will be occupied and used for 24 hours a day. During that time we do not just sit in one room but move around the house, from one room to another, using living room, kitchen, study, one bedroom doubles as a sewing room, another as a stockroom for a hobby business we run with DD.

When it comes to efficient use of the living space older people use their living space far more efficiently than younger people whose houses can be unoccupied for as much as 50% of the time.

Very true Flcketyb and some of us work from home as well.
I know a middle aged couple where he works away on business the majority of weeks in the year. She leaves for work at 6 and gets home after 9. They have just bought a flat nearer her work and are currently occupying both. And they have a holiday home that they rarely spend time in. Maybe a ban on second homes for high earners would be a better way of freeing up more properties if that's what you are aiming for Angus?
But the more I think about this issue, the more I am convinced that building more shared ownership social housing is the way forward for those who would like to get a toehold in the property market.

Well my mother is trying to downsize due to being widowed and reduced fitness levels and mobility. She is otherwise healthy and has a reasonable but not large amount of cash. We found a lovely new development with small gardens and parking for two cars but the bungalows were only available to housing association people not for purchase. As a widow of 83 where can she buy a gound floor property with a little privacy? I ask? So like my MiL too she has to buy a 3/4 bedroom house in order to be able to use the dining room or study as a bedroom and convert a utility toom / downstairs loo to a bathroom - daft!
Where we live, families have bought all the old bungalows to do up beacause they have space for kids to play, and they aspire to put on an upper floor when funds allow!
Mother has already downsized once, as a retired hard-working professional / once war-time child, she is struggling to find anything remotely pleasant without stairs!
It is LAND that is the problem not bedrooms!
Once Mother is sorted, DH and I plan also to downsize in about 18mths when he retires. We will then join those looking for decent shed space!

I have just read through the whole of this thread and have found it eloquent, enlightening and thought provoking. We Gransnetters are certainly a force to be reckoned with. I just hope Mr. Angus Hanton has the courage to turn up to answer these amazing comments - donning his hard hat on arrival!

Since being widowed, I have remained in our large family home ( which we have had for 33 years) for a number of reasons, but especially two: Firstly, the emotional attachment to it and all it contains (apparently new widows/ers are recommended to remain with the status quo until grief has eased somewhat before contemplating a traumatic move) and secondly for reasons already mentioned - to enable my family to return to their roots and stay with their own families (I am expecting an imminent invasion and could do with a couple more bedrooms!). The time may come when I want to move and possibly downsize from a 7+room house, but that will be my choice, my prerogative and not for anyone else to tell me what I should or shouldn't do. Taxes, rates, mortgages, insurances and heaven knows what else have been paid over 38 years of marriage, everything has been done by the book and we have never asked for or needed any help from the state : we worked for what we achieved, often going without in the early days.
I am beginning to despair of our increasingly meddling 'nanny state' and politicians and quango leaders telling us, in effect, 'don't do what I do, do what I say'.

Very well put Gally.

I, too, have an 'invasion' at the moment for several weeks and am expecting an even bigger one this weekend. Already wondering if I have enough room and hoping the weather will be good so that we can spill over into the garden!

I do dislike being manipulated, Angus.