Power of attorney.

It won't come into force until and unless the older person becomes mentally incapacitated, and it can be tricky to arrange when that's already started to happen. Good forward planning, IMO.

If you wait until it become necessary you may not be able to set it up. The person signing it has to be completely compos mentis (and conscious too, of course - if you were suddenly struck down and lying in a coma it would be too late) If I were about to undergo major surgery, for instance, I would have the poa completed as well as a will (hope that doesn't sound morbid)

DH and I set up power of attorney for each other, with the children is the next resort, when we were both quite fit. We did financial poa and a medical one too, in case we were not up to making decisions for ourselves on medical matters. The forms were witnessed and registered and stored beside our wills to be brought out if needed. So far they have not been (DH was lucid almost up to his death)

It is much more difficult to get authority to deal with somone's affairs if they are unable to give their consent - that is one reason for the crumbling houses you see which cannot be sold because their owners are still alive, but not capable of the legalities of a sale.

Is this the same in Scots law? And who determines the level of incapacity and when poa commences? I would be concerned that if this is set up too early then the circumstances of the appointed attorney may change. New partners, possible undue influences etc. Someone may look like a safe pair of hands at the moment but 15 years from now things could be very different.

I am talking about in Scotland.

It is much the same as a will, really. The circumstances of the executor to your will could change between writing it and it coming to probate, too. You just have to plan ahead and keep an eye on things. Ours specified that if the first person named was unable to do it, another named person was to take over, and you could add a lawyer as backup to that if you wanted.

Sorry Elegran....crossed posts, last one was meant for Ana. I've been doing some quick reading on this and it wouid seem not to be as simple as giving someone poa. For dinstance, if it's only financial management of bank accounts then you only need a third party mandate from the bank to do this. Def one for solicitor to set up.

I am starting to set up Lasting Power of Attorney. It costs a fortune as Elegran says, to sort out somebody's affairs if they cannot give consent.

I am also in the process of rewriting my will and then the solicitor can translate it into "legal speak". Better to do it sooner rather than later, especially if like myself you do not have relatives in this country.

I did it about 15 years ago when it was still Enduring POA - less complicated than LPOA and still valid, fortunately, as it's more expensive to set up LPOA. I do hope my sons haven't lost their copies!

We did it just after we'd moved up to Durham, as our wills needed changing and my husband had a progressive illness.
The signatures were obtained and the forms sent off. The letter came back stating that everything was okay, and what we had to do when needed the day after my husband was diagnosed with brain cancer. He died four months later.
You never know when you will need it.

My husband got Lasting Power of Attorney after his mother was found claiming benefits she wasn't entitled to. It meant we were able to take over all her financial affairs and was very useful once she was bed ridden in a home as she didn't have to pay for anything in person. It also saved having to try and explain things to her when she was firmly fixed in the 1950's and keeping cash under the bed!

How exactly do you do it? Is there a DIY version?

We have just completed our POA's using the Government online web site. It was very easy. Took about half an hour to enter the data for 4 POW's . about 2 hours to thoroughly check everything on the print outs. We then got all the various signatures required using the check list provided. WE then completed the registration documents online and sent them off.

https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney

It costs £110 to register an LPA unless you get a reduction or exemption. (each person will require 2 LPA's)

I suggest you start by request the info pack online, that will explain the process and give suggestions for some of the questions asked.

Thanks for that info pompa. I had no idea it could be done online.

I suggest you try the online system, nothing is set in stone, the documents are easily revisited and changed should you find errors or wish to change them - we changed ours several times before printing out the final copies.
You don't have to pay anything until everything is signed and you are ready to register.

Our solicitor wanted £1000 on top of the fees to do it for us.

There are two areas for Lasting Power of Attorney, one is Financial and the other is Health and Welfare. I'd strongly advise anyone to have both. The function of the first is obvious but the one for Health and Welfare was invaluable for us when my late MiL became incapable of managing herself.

But you do have to remember to register the LPAs with the relevant departments (the Office of the Public Guardian or something like that) or they are not legal.

Last week a neighbour asked me to witness hers which they had paid a solicitor to draw up. When I looked at the forms they were the ones from the Internet. I don't see any point in asking a solicitor to do something so easy to do yourself.

Imo we should all get both types drawn up and signed but don't register until they are needed. If you don't have one of these and becoming incapable of looking after your own affairs your family will have to go to the Court of Protection which I heard costs £2000 and has to be done again every year.

Nonnie I have just been on a course where part of it was about POA and if a person becomes incapable of appointing an A a deputy is appointed by the Court of Protection who may or may not be a family member and the fee payable is as you said but then each year every penny paid out on their behalf has to be accounted for backed up by bank statements and a fee paid every year, approx £5/600. Far better to set it up while everyone is able and knows what the wishes are.

several points from the last few posts.

Yes - you need to set up both LPA's before you become infirm, you don't have to register at that time, your attorneys can register for you BUT ( a big but) if there are any problems at that time it gets complicated. Much better to draw up the application and get it registered asap.

The online application is very straight forward, there are some questions that you may find difficult to answer (eg, what to do about life saving treatment) BUT, even if you get a solicitor to draw up the forms he will still need you to answer those questions.
In defense of the solicitor charges, it does take several hours to print off the forms (something in the order of 15 pages for each LPA and then thoroughly check them. However it is not a difficult task, well within the capabilities of the average person. So spend a few hours yourself and go spend the £1000 on something more exciting(Ladies, that does not include shoes)

I would also mention the help line, they are very helpful and patient.

Twice in the last 15 years, under the old system and the new, I have been involved with setting up POAs for elderly people, who had suddenly become unable to manage their affairs and it was a nightmare.

Apart from anything else it took some time to sort out, in one case this meant I actually paid the care fees for my aunt and uncle in a care home for two months because my uncle wouldn't sign cheques for anything over about £100.

Fortunately I had the money available and obviously reclaimed it when the POA, but not everyone will be in that position.

I am rapidly coming to the conclusion for anyone over 60 not to have set up POAs and made a will is an act of selfishness or incompetence.

annsixty someone I know paid £2k to the CoP for a mother in law. He was furious and didn't understand why they wanted so much but I think it is perfectly reasonable that they check if the person wanting to manage someone's affairs is doing the right thing.

This post reminded me to tell DS's they should think about setting these up. Anyone could have an accident at any time and need one, you don't have to be old!

pompa, sorry, it will be shoes and DS3 has as many pairs as I do and far more than his wife.

The phrase "don't register until it is needed" is all very well, but these things do have a habit of being needed suddenly when you are least expecting it. Someone in the early stages of Altzheimers, say, is not going to be all that alert to the need to dig out the POAs and get them sent off to be registered before they get any worse. They are too busy coping with a world that is becoming increasingly complex and puzzling.

Get them registered WELL BEFORE they are needed. If you change your mind about the nominated person, you can take action.

As I understand it they all need to be registered as soon as they are completed. The solicitor who spoke to us said it is currently taking 10 weeks to be registered,but the person giving the Power does not have to, I think the term was invoke the power until he/she feels the need.It remains also in their power to revoke it until they give their attorney the power to act.

We set ours up two years ago after a long and expensive process via the Court of Protection to look after an auntie with dementia when her husband suddenly collapsed and died. We nominated each other and our two DDs to act jointly and severally. This last point is important if you want collective decisions about your money or care or to make it easier for one person to get something done. Our original COP deputy authority only gave 'several' permission for action for Auntie which caused issues as there were 3 of us named so we had to go 'mob handed' to bank etc. appointments. This was an error by COP but took 3 months to sort! Certainly worth getting it done while you still have capacity.

Following on from some of the above posts, it would seem that even young people in their 20's should set up poa as soon as they have finances to manage. They too can be rendered incapable in an instant due to accident or ill health. At what point do you start?