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Spotted this taken from BBC news webpage

(112 Posts)
12Michael Mon 05-Oct-15 07:21:18

Ministers should waste no time to make unpopular cuts to pensioner benefits, a think tank director has said.

Many of those hit by a cut to the winter fuel allowance might "not be around" at the next election, said Alex Wild of the Taxpayers' Alliance.

And others would forget which party had done it, he added.

At the group's meeting at the Conservative conference in Manchester, former defence secretary Liam Fox said spending cuts must be "for keeps".

Mr Wild said the Tories could not wait until a year before the next election to make the necessary cuts to the winter fuel allowance, free bus passes, the Christmas bonus and other pensioner benefits.


The cuts should be made "as soon as possible after an election for two reasons", said Mr Wild.

"The first of which will sound a little bit morbid - some of the people... won't be around to vote against you in the next election. So that's just a practical point, and the other point is they might have forgotten by then."

He added: "If you did it now, chances are that in 2020 someone who has had their winter fuel cut might be thinking, 'Oh I can't remember, was it this government or was it the last one? I'm not quite sure.'

"So on a purely practical basis I would say do it immediately. That might be one of those things I regret saying in later life but that would be my practical advice to the government."

'Day of reckoning'

Mr Fox told the meeting that the government had to act now to make further cuts to pensioner benefits and welfare.

He said "we can never go back" to the "historically high" levels of public spending seen in recent years and the government's public spending cuts must be "for keeps".

"This is the time to fix the roof" he said.

"We have a broken opposition. We have just won a general election and we need now to take the tough decisions we believe are right."

Now that Labour was not such a "great threat", this was a "great opportunity for us to do some of the more difficult things, however unpalatable they will be in the short term are what we need to do for the country", said the right-wing backbencher.

He added: "We need to do what we all know deep in our hearts to be right."

Liam FoxImage copyright Conservative Party
Image caption
Former defence secretary Liam Fox said the government had to make further cuts

Mr Fox added that the government had to make the "moral" case for reducing public spending further.

"We are borrowing from the next generation to spend today. That is otherwise known as a Ponzi scheme," he said.

"It's what we are operating as a national financial policy."

He added: "If you continue to overspend there will be a day of reckoning."

He said this was because borrowing costs would rise and the era of low inflation would not last forever, meaning economic growth on its own was not enough to balance the books.

Older people would understand the need for cuts to their benefits to help the next generation, he suggested.

"We have got to start to get really honest with people because this is not a sustainable position," he said.

"We can't afford it now, we can't afford it in the future, why don't we try to get a longer-term plan put in place so that people can make the adjustments they will need to make for us to be able to get back into balance."

annsixty Mon 05-Oct-15 07:30:46

I will leave it to people more political than me to analyse and comment on this but what a cynical thing to say, that we will either be dead or will have forgotten by the next election.

vampirequeen Mon 05-Oct-15 07:45:15

Well that sums up the Conservative Party. Cut the pensioners benefits now because they'll either be dead or confused by 2020 so won't be around to vote against us.

Anya Mon 05-Oct-15 07:45:34

I have no doubt the winter fuel allowance will be cut or stopped altogether in the near future and that £10 Christmas thingy. I just hope they don't do away with the bus passes as they are a life line to many older people without cars.

whitewave Mon 05-Oct-15 07:54:02

This has been gleaned from a meeting of the Tax payers alliance and other extreme right wingers of the Tory party like Fox.

They shouldn't be too confident that we will all be dead, many of us with long memories will still be around. That is of course if we haven't died from cold or lack of NHS services meanwhile.

It seems to me that as predicted the cuts are now beginning to have a nasty effect on those least able to help themselves. They will not forget, and let us hope others with a more altruistic attitude towards societ,y rather than a selfish individualistic approach epitomised by the tax payers alliance, will also not forget either.

12Michael Mon 05-Oct-15 08:36:40

Trouble is they cannot touch it www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2007/13/pdfs/ukpga_20070013_en.pdf
Because it was passed in 2007 by royal assent read above.
Mick

durhamjen Mon 05-Oct-15 08:37:51

There must be a name for it. Geronticide?
At least with assisted suicide we could choose to kill ourselves off.

Did they not get elected because of their promises to pensioners?

Nelliemoser Mon 05-Oct-15 09:37:58

Bloody hell. This is the true thoughts of of the government we have now.
B*** the poor and elderly.

This country could easily afford it if they taxed the very rich in a more robust way way and made corporations pay proper tax.

grannyqueenie Mon 05-Oct-15 09:40:13

This piece of news really cheered my heart waking up on a wet Monday morning. sad. More worrying than the implications of the actual cuts was the grim realisation that politcians can and do speak about older people in such a dismissive and disparaging way. sad
ps I love my bus pass!

Maggiemaybe Mon 05-Oct-15 09:46:49

What lovely, caring people they are. And short sighted. Age Concern published the results of a cost benefit analysis of the free bus pass recently, showing that each £ spent on it generates almost £3 in benefit to the users and wider community/economy.

I do agree that the winter fuel allowance could be looked at - we got it when we were both working - but sneaking it away with the idea that the olds will forget who took it is appalling.

Alea Mon 05-Oct-15 09:54:32

Right, that's as good a reason as any for living for years and years and really pi**ing them offangry

mariann Mon 05-Oct-15 10:01:17

The fact that the Labour party has a weak leader ( according to them!) has given them such a feeling of being on top that they can finally allow themselves to say what they really think. I hink this may do more damage than anything Corbyn does - or does not do.

As to us not being around. The last word has not been spoken on that. It could be that HE is not around. Who can tell these days? We who are old have good chance of living longer. Its the middle years which are dangerous especially for men.
The fuel allowance was given to too many people just to simplify matters, means testing is expensive so cut it for everybody including those who have to choose between eating and heating. Disgusting!

whitewave Mon 05-Oct-15 10:06:54

Wander what their end game is, and what they secretly would like the UK to look like.

whitewave Mon 05-Oct-15 10:07:14

Wonder!!!!

Jane10 Mon 05-Oct-15 10:10:23

They are just the extremes. I'm quite sure that the media just highlight this for sheer sensationalism. Bet it will be strongly refuted later today by the actual party as opposed to the Taxpayers Alliance.

annodomini Mon 05-Oct-15 10:15:16

In four weeks I will be eligible for a free TV licence. I have often wondered why, at 74 years and 364 days I can still afford the licence but suddenly get a freebie at 75. I know what great value I get for the licence fee and would willingly continue to pay it as long as I live. But to cut or abolish the winter fuel allowance is to threaten the health and well-being of many older people and I understand that grants for insulation and other 'green' schemes are now being cut. Are they now acknowledging the reality of global warming and hoping that we will all therefore survive future winters?

rosequartz Mon 05-Oct-15 10:15:21

I think the government could save a lot of money by getting rid of all these Think Tanks

Shall we start a campaign?

whitewave Mon 05-Oct-15 10:16:27

Fox was in the cabinet until he was sacked for misconduct. So not so extreme as to be barred from the cabinet.

They may deny it this week, but they probably think that they haven't softened the voter up sufficiently yet. They have 5 years, so watch this space.

These ideas do not go away, they get worked on. Osborne has the autumn statement so I would take bets on him introducing even more cuts.

rosequartz Mon 05-Oct-15 10:17:56

I am now determined to outlive Liam Fox
(Fingers and toes crossed)

rosequartz Mon 05-Oct-15 10:24:03

And how insulting to say that if we're not dead we will have forgotten who did it - not everyone becomes forgetful as they get older - many have more marbles than this lot!

Luckygirl Mon 05-Oct-15 10:32:30

Cynical or what?

M0nica Mon 05-Oct-15 10:41:09

What a silly little twerp. Most people are retired by 70 and live well into their 80s and fewer of us are getting dementia (ignore the recent Alzheimer Society research to the contrary, it has been shown to be wrong).

We will rememeber his remarks and who made them and which party supported them not just for this election but for several subsequent elections.

Having said that I have long advocated removing all the bells and whistles of winter fuel allowance and free tv licences that surround the state pension. I find them insulting and demeaning. They should be replaced by
an increase in the basic state pension which will increase the income levelfor Pension credit all the way up the line.

Well off pensioners, like me, will be the ones to bear the brunt of the loss of bells and whistles and I am quite happy about that.

Nonnie Mon 05-Oct-15 10:45:35

I responded on the other page before I saw this.

I am surprised so many do not see the difference between the Taxpayer's Alliance and the current government. They are definitely not the same thing!

It was a very patronising thing to say by someone with very narrow views who seems to think we are all gaga once we receive our pensions.

Do not forget that the WFA was introduced instead of a pension rise so is not actually a 'benefit'. I think it should be incorporated into the state pension once and for all so that all this fuss could be stopped. It is too 'nanny state' for me as it assumes we cannot budget over the year to pay for winter heating. Our generations is very good at budgeting and managing our finances without getting into debt. It was us who bought our homes when interest rates were very high and managed to pay our mortgages one way or another. We lived a long time before credit cards and are used to saving for things rather than instant gratification.

I suspect they monitor what we say so let's say it loud and clear!

rosesarered Mon 05-Oct-15 10:54:07

It hasn't happened yet, and probably won't happen.Alex Wild of the Tax Payers Alliance sounds a typically young,'forward thinker' who is tossing ideas around hoping to be noticed.Wiser heads (who know about the power of the grey vote) will hopefully prevail.Having said that, like Monica has said,
There are frills that a lot could do without, better off pensioners do not need free stuff.I would leave the bus passes alone, as those who don't need them probably don't use buses anyway.

whitewave Mon 05-Oct-15 11:01:24

No it hasn't happened yet, just like child tax credit cut was never going to happen. Just like the NHS being safe in the Tories hands, and on and on.

Come back just before the next election and see if you are right in your faith that the Tories will not touch it.