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Thoughtful Posting

(431 Posts)
Imperfect27 Thu 04-Feb-16 08:10:39

This may seem to many like a repeat of the 'internet manners' discussion that was aired recently, but I wanted to revisit the heart of this matter because of recent developments.

I recently raised a question about texting birth announcements on the AIBU forum recently and unwittingly provoked all sorts of reactions, incurring rudeness and insensitivity along the way. I am not posting here to carp about that, but to highlight it as illustrative of a wider problem.

I am relatively new to GN, but as a result of that thread I received several emails from people who are evidently upset about the way some GNetters post. I suspect there are even more who felt the same. Some are newly arrived, but say they have been put off posting full-stop. Some say they are leaving GN because they are genuinely dismayed at the levels of unkindness expressed and what seem to be pointedly negative / aggressive /insensitive comments. Sometimes when people have raised concern on the forums they feel they have been then publicly shot down in flames and it is usually suggested that they are too sensitive. Some people feel that others assume they are right no matter what and that they have an apparent right because they are longer term members.

I am not writing here to 'preach', or 'carp', or 'point the finger' - rather to think of solutions. none of us are saints and we are going to make errors and misread posts at times. Sometimes something is said 'tongue in cheek', but is taken as offensive. These sort of misunderstandings can be checked out and in my experience a PM often does the trick. However, like many who have emailed me, I honestly think some posts are an awful advert for this site and I really understand why others are put off.

Sometimes the problem may be that when a thread becomes very long it is tempting to skip and just add our own view. Sometimes what we discuss is indeed sensitive and emotive and we can find ourselves reacting strongly. I think it is a good idea to at least skim read other posts and to take time to consider views that may differ from our own and also to keep in mind that this is indeed a public forum.

Perhaps the litmus tests are
* would you actually say the same to someone's face?
* would you feel embarrassed if others actually knew who you were?
*would you mind your views being requoted in public?

Well, I have put my head above the parapet. I have done so because I genuinely like GN, but like others who have emailed me, I have been really dismayed at the way some posts develop and feel that at times we don't actually do ourselves any credit. I also think it is truly sad that a significant amount of people are evidently put off taking a full part in discussions.

pollyparrot Thu 04-Feb-16 08:26:03

It seems to me that some of the posters, who have been on here a while, think they have special privileges. They only think that, which is pretty stupid really, as anyone can make nasty comments whilst hiding behind anonymity. I've suggested posters might like to reign back their comments, when I think they've over stepped the mark, but I was put in my place with reference to me being a newbie.

Come on, let's make this a nice place to post. Surely we're old enough to know better.

Anya Thu 04-Feb-16 08:28:35

Beware! Those of a nervous disposition might want to just lurk on this thread wink

grannylyn65 Thu 04-Feb-16 08:30:38

Behind you 100%, , been targeted myself, these are fair and extremely well written posts.

pollyparrot Thu 04-Feb-16 08:35:34

Anya, you are missing the point my dear. Making reference to a nervous disposition just reinforces the idea that it's ok to be offensive and if you don't like it, it's your own fault.

Alea Thu 04-Feb-16 08:48:12

Have you even seen Mumsnet the "other place"??
shockshock

Badenkate Thu 04-Feb-16 08:51:20

As someone who also haven't been on here for very long, I do agree with this posting, and I think Imperfect27's litmus tests are good questions to ask before you post. Certainly I can't believe some of the comments I've seen on here would be said 'face to face', and anonymity seems to make some posters feel they have carte blanche to say anything they like, however hurtful.
Surely we're all old enough to be able to make a point, however strongly felt, in a reasonable manner. In fact, generally, the more people loose their cool and become abusive, the more others ignore the point they're trying to make. In 'real life' we can avoid those we find unpleasant, but it's almost impossible on something like this. I love being able to read different points of view and discussions - I don't want to be an embarrassed bystander at a slanging match

pollyparrot Thu 04-Feb-16 08:52:16

Yes, it seems that Internet forums can bring out the worst in some people. As the older contingent on the Internet, can I suggest we conduct ourselves in a more seemly manner?

Maggiemaybe Thu 04-Feb-16 08:53:53

Hmm, I'm not so sure that "a nice place to post" is going to be an interesting place. I'm not advocating rudeness, but without a bit of robust discussion it's going to be bloody pretty dull around here! With regards to being old enough to know better, surely we're old enough to know that not everyone agrees with us all the time, to take a bit of criticism or banter as well? Is everyone we meet out in the real world polite and endlessly chirpy?

I don't really like the private messaging either. It smacks of playground tittle tattling and ganging up. If you want to pull another member up on something, why not do it for all to see? If it's reportable, report it.

Marmark1 Thu 04-Feb-16 08:57:37

Well my simple input,doesn't it all come down to upbringing again, I mean a matter of respect and good manners.Some people just can't accept any one disagreeing with them.

NanaandGrampy Thu 04-Feb-16 09:00:42

OOohhh me ! I have Alea and it's certainly a free for all. Nasty comments abound in the name of 'being honest or forthright' or 'telling it like it is' . But that doesn't make it right does it?

I'm not advocating a place where 'yes' is the only answer , just that ' no' is couched in terms that are kind, thoughtful and constructive. For instance I could say ' You're too sensitive , get over yourself!' OR I could say ' This is obviously a sensitive topic for you, how do you think you could move forward?'.

I think one issue is being able to tell the difference when people JUST want support which might mean reining in our natural desire to solve a problem and when people are looking for our views. Two very different type of questions in my opinion.

We've all had a moment where we just want a 'there there there' answer and I don't think people should be vilified for needing that.

I'm all for lively debate but in my opinion that is for threads that are not support questions but for when we are discussing bigger less personal to one person issues.

I take your point *MaggieMaybe about pulling up another member in the actual thread but isn't that what part of the OP is saying, not everyone is comfortable with confrontation no matter our age. Even on an internet forum it takes courage sometimes to fly in the face of criticism.

pollyparrot Thu 04-Feb-16 09:08:30

Maggiemaybe it's quite possible to have robust discussion without resorting to insults and belittling others. I personally don't need to read unpleasant posts in order to be entertained, thanks. Yes, let's disagree, but keep it civil for goodness sake.

OlderNoWiser Thu 04-Feb-16 09:13:51

I don't think this forum, or any other on the internet, are unique in the fact that there are some rude people about who like nothing better than to provoke others for the sake of it, and probably because they have nothing better to do with their time.

When I was a little girl I remember my grandmother telling me about a neighbour who lived in her street that "nobody bothers with her because she just causes trouble". This is not a new thing and is not limited to internet forums, although the anonymity afforded to people on such forums does make it easier these days I suppose.

Having been at the end of various kinds of verbal abuse for expressing my views in a few places because I am a newbie, have not posted in the right place, have said the wrong thing in the wrong way, or any number of other random reasons by people who have been there longer, think they own the place, know everything better, are taller, more beautiful, or just plain pig-headed, I have come to the conclusion that it is not worth my while to get involved with people like that and I now ignore them.

"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference" (Mark Twain)

Imperfect27 Thu 04-Feb-16 09:19:18

Personally, I love a good discussion and I have no problem with people having a different viewpoint, in fact I welcome it as I like to be made to think. However, there can sometimes be a very fine line between a 'robust' reply and bluntness to the point of rudeness.

Re whether or not to PM or 'have it out in public'. If something is particularly contentious or sensitive, at times I think a PM can be better. I personally don't want to appear to exchange brickbats in public - some people seem to enjoy that and that may be their understanding of 'robust', but it makes me wince. It could also be argued that publicly played out disagreements are a way of posters trying to garner support at the other's expense. Quite often it is evident that some are quick to defend someone who has been quite unpleasant - many newbies feel that is like being ganged up on.

Looking at it another way, at times I think an evidently misjudged post actually leaves that poster vulnerable and to my mind it is kinder and more mannerly to continue a conversation privately. It is really easy to make cheap shots - a PM can be a more adult way of handling the situation if it does feel like it is going wrong.

Maggiemaybe, if 'nice' is a funny ole word with lots of saccharin connotations. However, if here it simply means respectful and kind I am all for it.

Imperfect27 Thu 04-Feb-16 09:23:22

OlderNoWiser I love the Mark Twain quote ... duly noted smile

petra Thu 04-Feb-16 09:40:05

I think this forum is very polite, almost bordering on the 'genteel' sometimes.

Anya Thu 04-Feb-16 09:41:31

pollyparrot - that was an attempt at humour. Something sadly lacking in certain posts (not talking about this thread necessarily) but it just goes to show how posts can be misunderstood especially when phrases like 'my dear' hmm are added into the equation.

pollyparrot Thu 04-Feb-16 09:44:01

Anya Poor attempt, must try harder, my dear. grin

Anya Thu 04-Feb-16 09:45:09

How very rude you are...I thought this thread was about being polite?

Maggiemaybe Thu 04-Feb-16 09:46:25

Blimey, what patronising comments from someone advocating niceness.

Anya Thu 04-Feb-16 09:46:30

Can I point out how you are using 'belittling' phrases yourself.

pollyparrot Thu 04-Feb-16 09:46:37

Oh, sorry that was meant to be humour! Boom boom! grin

loopylou Thu 04-Feb-16 09:47:09

I've been on GN for a couple of years and I too hate the 'Grow a thicker skin' comments or downright snide comments that I and others have received. There are circumstances when I leave a thread because certain posters are nothing short of unpleasant and seem unable to accept that some of us may be in need of a bit of empathy rather than abuse.

I was always told that if you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything. This doesn't stifle lively debate but shows respect for others' views, which of course may be opposite to those I hold.

jinglbellsfrocks Thu 04-Feb-16 09:47:27

Oh grow a pair. Or try Grannynet. hmm

pollyparrot Thu 04-Feb-16 09:48:28

Banter is cool grin