A thread for those who are voting OUT of the EU to make it fair

Hmm...don't think that would suit all those who have recently converted or reverted to Labour...but there you have it, what's the point in sticking to one's principles if it makes the party unelectable?

Surprised at JC, but he's now coming across as a rather old man who isn't at all comfortable with his current position.

Exactly Jalima and Ana. Depends on the leader of a party and how they change things around, which Blair and Brown did as New Labour a few years ago, they made the Labour Party electable again and got loads of extra voters because of it.

Corbyn does seem to have aged this year, the responsibilty of power!

It is amazing that Hillary is a year older than Jeremy.
What's her secret?
(and not just her looks, she seems so vibrant)

Goodness all those people who cry foul when they get reported seem to have been busy.

I have not suggested how you post I have repeated what you said about yourself Roses. You did say you were a Lib Dem and, after the last election you moved to backing - quite clearly - the Conservatives and you also said:

If Gisela Stewart were the Leader instead of Corbyn I would vote Labour at the next GE [Fri 10-Jun-16 08:43:40]

I just commented on what you had shared with us all.

My politics and future voting intentions have nothing to do with you Gracesgran

If that is the case why has my religion anything to do with you. Why it was OK in the past to accuse me of making an “un-Christian” post. You never did explain what you meant as there was nothing wrong with the post - nothing at all, and I have certainly never shared my religion with the forum. For all you know I could have been sat here in a Hijab while you made such a comment.

Obviously all the people who see themselves as "us" will now be pressing the report button and this too will be deleted.

suggested how you vote - not post

Corbyn needs HRT and a stylist. And a lot of adrenaline.

And a Savile Row tailor(according to some)!

Enough of this bitchin about oldies. Surely on GN we should be bitchin about people who look too young to be PM/president etc Just think if Chuka Umunna had been elected party leader, what jolly fun we could have had. Just an "ig" (egg) as they say in NZ. Or at best a newly-hatched chick.

As I said I did not suggest how you would vote roses I referred to your own words.

Thread: The Labour Party
rosesarered Mon 18-Apr-16 14:34:29
I'm not a Socialist or Labour voter, as you know, have voted Lib Dem for a long time, and next time would vote Conservative just to keep Corbyn and his ilk out of power.

and as I quoted above, this was followed by todays on this thread:
If Gisela Stewart were the Leader instead of Corbyn I would vote Labour at the next GE [Fri 10-Jun-16 08:43:40]

Pick, pick, pick - blimey I had to trawl back a bit to see which post had been deleted...

I notice no one's commented on my observation about durhamjen's change of alliance, but I suppose that's all right because she's on your 'team', Gracesgran.

(I fully expect that post to be deleted as well, but I'm beyond caring!)

Ana please let me apologise for you having to "trawl" back in the thread. I put my mother's care ahead of Gransnet and we have had a bit of a disastrous afternoon. I was late back home and had things to catch up on here but I did post as soon as I was able but I can see that may have been a problem for you.

I don't suppose anyone like it to be inferred that they are not telling the truth and I was probably not in the right frame of mind to find the posts had been deleted because Gransnet believed I had "suggested" another member votes a certain way - I think that is what you did too wasn't it? Obviously rulings only apply to some.

I felt I had to reply because "roses" came back - after GNHQ had dealt with it and posted "I simply want to say that I do NOT 'share my politics in great detail". I imagine this is the sort of evidence GNHQ had been given and on which they made their decision. Now, I don't know how you read the quotes from the "Labour Party" thread above but I don't think you could share in any greater detail.

So, I do apologise once again if you find this "Pick, pick, pick" and I imagine my inability to deal with it straight away added to that feeling but you may now be able to see why the delay and why I was upset by the inferences made.

The German finance minister gives a clear enough message about how Brexit will affect trade:

"Schäuble also ruled out the possibility Britain could again enjoy advantages of the single market, similar to the ways non-EU members Switzerland and Norway do, after leaving the EU. "It would require the country to abide by the rules of a club from which it currently wants to withdraw." Brexit, he said, would be a decision against the single market. "In is in. Out is out," Schäuble said." (Reported in Speigal.de).

Brexit makes no economic sense.

If the result is In, we'll get constant harping on how Out would have made everything wonderful and how being In is the source of all our woes.

I gave my thought on what Wolfgang Schauble said on 'one of the other EU threads , ' EU, I'm in a Quandary '. So many to keep with!

" I am sick and tired of hearing, seeing and reading so much hypocrisy, spin pushed out as fact, pure b----y irony at times everywhere I look.

I think a problem for me is this. When the likes of German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schauble declares basically if we leave the EU the EU will retaliate and will not take kindly to trading with the UK , we will have left 'The Club' so sod them, I think is that all you have. To me if a supposed intelligent thinker is prepared to go that far, out of spite, what should I think about the wording / mantra of the European Union for a desire for a Federal Europe. I think there is no desire about it, it's already happened and what Germany says Germany will get.

Where is the democracy in a Club that doesn't allow nations to make their own decisions without resulting to threats?What does it say about a supposed democratic parliament that one nation thinks it can speak on behalf of all the others?

I really do find if the reaction to Brexit by the other EU countries is to make us suffer for 'our cheek' quite pathetic. The whole level of debate is downright childish and if supposed intelligent thinkers are prepared to cut everbodies nose off, including their own, to save face then that is beyond my comprehension.

If Scotland had voted for Independence would the other 3 nations in the UK have said, bye, we will not trade with you na na na nee na? I would bloody well hope not , I would hope we would be a bit more accepting of a democratic decision being made and do the best to keep the momentum of trade and friendship going as it is in all parties interest to do so. To do anything other would be the route to destabilisation and for what, show of power, what?.

That's why I am struggling which way to vote. I am still head in but heart out and the level of nastiness and petty squabbling is not helping one jot. If this is the level of 'progressive/intelligent thinking' by all parties then they should all be ashamed.

The 'Project Fear' threats of what will happen if we go Out are very similar to the threats from the No campaign in the Scottish referendum, of what would happen if the result was independence.

I believe everyone should vote for what they understand, or wish to achieve. There is substantial misinformation from both sides. No-one is independent, journalists, pundits and of course politicians. They all have a vested interest.
For me it is they way we threw away our commonwealth links. The Queen is still head of state yet we treat those countries as if they had no onnection with the UK, and yet they still wish to continue that arrangement at least whilst the Queen reigns.
Also nothing ever remains the same, reflect on how our young people live today based on our livestyles.
Just because we have been a member doesn't mean we do not look at what is on offer and does it match our current needs. Change can be uncomfortable but 'if you always do what you have always done -- you will get what you have always got' - change is a chance to revisit procedures and practice and improve.
A lot of discussion is about how being a member of the EU affects the young the most so they must vote - as if older people have no life experience to draw on, and are irrelevant! Setting yet again old against young.
I am very political and have been since I was about 14! I have to say my dreams and aspirations have come to nothing. No government has looked after its people,(the PAYE public) they are only interested in their own agenda, which includes being on the world stage either through war or any other grandstanding behaviours. EU!?

How many financial scandals, money laundering, tax avoidance, tax evasion, expenses and allowances do we continue to just accept!? FIFA is a prime example - bribery and corruption on a grand scale, yet it was the US who said this cannot continue.
How many individuals and organisations have used and abused our young children with impunity over decades. So do we trust the judiciary, police, councils?

Someone who worked for me came temporarily from Slovakia in 2000, and lived with a local councillor, he said - when we were having our routine political discussions, 'your country is more corrupt than mine' - when repeated our friends just laughed! But they are not laughing now!

On any measure politics has become a dirty business. Are we are held in high regard by the EU, or do they just want our money?

Sadly the debate seems to hinge on immigration, ill thought out, very typical of those in power. Every country should be allowed to choose entry quota requirements, which should be for anyone from any country.

Where are the strategies to reduce our youth unemployment? Support northern cities? Reduce inequality on all measures................ What priority have these in change process.

Finally and trivially our music is sold successfully around the world, more successfully than any other country, but in Eurovision we cannot even get into the top twenty!!!! That's the high esteem we engender in Europe and have built up over the years!

As I've said before I think more money is channelled up north via the EU than it will be when central government alone controls the purse strings. And, great musical nation that we are, our Eurovision songs are rubbish. This year there was a huge Eurovision protest vote against Russia [as there was with the 'bearded lady' song before that]. Putin is rubbing his hands with glee at the thought of Europe fragmenting .

Hi Tegan - more money is currently given to schools in the SE of England than to schools in the N, so you are probably correct.
FarNorth - are you suggesting that the leave campaign is not spreading fear?
Methinks perhaps that Farage was stirring up fear only this week implying that immigrants intent on rape.
indy100.independent.co.uk/article/nigel-farages-scaremongering-migrant-rape-claim-debunked--Z1Xblhx6nQW
This in a week where one of his own aides was jailed for sex attacks on a 7 year old boy.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3632847/Farage-s-UKIP-party-aide-30-predatory-dangerous-paedophile.html
I don't think that an independent Price Waterhouse report on the economic effects of an exit (nearly a million jobs likely to be lost in the next 4 years) is biased. In fact companies like PCW make money in fair weather or foul, so they will have a company plan in place as to how they will be making money out of an Exit.

A very last word on my future voting intentions ( who the heck is interested anyway?)
I do not know......it is four years until the next GE, which gives me plenty of time to decide.And it is my business anyway.
Throwaway remarks about Corbyn and Gisela Stewart mean nothing, just musings and speculation on my part.
Now, let's get back to what matters, the proper reason for this thread, the EU.
I shall be ignoring anything else.

Good post BillieW and welcome to the forum

No idea what most of your sarky post to me is going on about Gragesgran. But I'm sure it felt better to get it out of your system.

I wasn't actually talking about your voting intentions in my posts roses. It was either you or someone on your behalf who complained that my post was "suggesting" how you vote. You also came back and said you had not shared "your politics in great detail" which is patently untrue.

I am not interested in them nor do I want to be discussing them on here but do not want to be called a liar either. The only person who keeps bringing this back to the fore is you. You did not end when the posts had been deleted and you did not end when I evidenced that what I had said was true.

This is incredibly boring but it is you that are determine to resurrect it. You declared - in detail - how you intended to vote. That is the simple truth not whatever you and/or friends told GNHQ. It was not me who was telling less than the truth.

Yes, good post, billie.

jess, saying that Remain has had a campaign of "project fear" is not saying anything about Brexit. It only implies that Brexit's campaign has been better if you interpret it that way, which you needn't. Several posters, including farnorth, I think, and me, have criticised both campaigns as being insulting to voters' intelligence.