should the children be more important than the relationship

I don't think it is a question of having a husband as a toddler, it seems to be forgetting that you are having a baby together as equal parents. I get amazed at how the woman then becomes the 'expert' and has to be the one to tell him what to do! It is his child and he is just as capable, apart from breast feeding, and you can leave him to care for his child. I think that many women would feel very patronised if their DH never let them be alone with the baby, told them exactly what they had to do, what the baby had to wear etc and yet the man is expected to put up with it.
Of course a mature couple put their child first, it is automatic, but they don't have to have a pecking order and they are sensible enough to spend some time as a couple, rather than always being parents, and they do realise that other people can manage to babysit and this is good for the child to have loving relationships with others.
If the child has emotionally mature parents they are more likely to grow up secure than having parents who think you can measure love, have a pecking order and try and freeze other people out. Maybe it comes from insecurity.

glad someone agrees with me. .

I agree with you, Ethel that the parents should put the child(ren) first. That's not quite how it came across originally, though.

I can remember "wise" advice being given to new mums to remember not to let their husband feel left out after the baby's arrival, as if he is some sort of toddler who has to be pandered to.

Anyone can have two usernames if they sign up using two separate email addresses.

ana I want to have just one name but I keep forgetting password and logged back in to the reiki lady one so I think I must just stay on this one. Im not keeping it secret you make it sound as if I have got a privelidge.

How come you're allowed to have two usernames, ethel?

I am most definately a reiki healer, I also know that I have had a lovely husband but he died and to be quite honest I couldnt face anyone else dying on me . Thats the main reason I didnt remarry, Imay have held different views otherwise.

I feel sorry for the child in the set up where the father is just thought a nuisance and never gets treated as an equal. I think that very often it strengthens the father/child relationship as the child gets older - I
imagine them both rolling their eyes when the mother gets on her hobby horse. (And resolving to do things differently when they are a parent).

Ethel1. I find it hard to reconcile your work as a Reiki healer and your very jaundersed view of mankind.

with reference to Luckygirls remarks, what I said is not a wind up, I did consider having a man around when I was ill, it would have been handy but I changed my mind but is that not so different to a single parent having a boyfriend around to do jobs and provide money when the children are small ?
I repeat that I really did say to DH that he would have to take second place and I also said I should take second place to our child in the same way. You become parents after a child is born and that's a different role compared to being a couple. Children really do come first. Ive no patience with jealous men they should grow up.

I don't know if the granny and mother had gone somewhere together or were working, (don't know them that well, he is a friend of DH) Wendysue; no, great-granny wouldn't refuse anything. She was travelling on two buses to help look after her own mother until she was well into her 70s (mother was in her late 90s!).
Perhaps that is what keeps her going despite the exhaustion.

The young people may not be so much selfish as unthinking, not realising the strain elderly people would feel in looking after youngsters.
The GGPs probably don't like to say no, but they should do so if they can't cope.

But Jaima, couldn't these GGPs have said no to looking after their DGGC? Or put a limit on the number of hours? And where were the GPs?

DH has just returned from visiting friends. They are utterly exhausted, they are 83 and 81 and he has very poor health. They were looking after 2 year old DGGC yesterday for 10 hours.
Some of the younger generation are utterly selfish imo

Or perhaps that is what is termed 'working for your pension' (see other thread).

SJP yes

gillybob I wasn't young when I had the DC but with a husband away in the RN, a mother who was an invalid and a MIL who worked full-time and had her own elderly DM and DC to care for, I never got a day or night off either.

I never thought of 'nurturing our relationship', we just got on with it!
But I do look after the DGC.

Odd, though, that despite all this 'nurturing' more marriages break up these days than did in our younger days.

Beyond credence that anyone thinks it is a healthy parent/child relationship to go as far as signing a Christmas card mother, child, father. (I would say narcissistic mother).
or else stressed and not thinking straight, as I was one Christmas trying to cope with too much, wrote DM's Christmas cards for her and put them in the wrong envelopes. At least everyone most people saw the funny side.

I never had the luxury of a "night off" from being a mother and boy could I have done with one. I was 18 when my son was born and did not have a friend in the world as I was unable to take part in anything away from
My son and work . My parents did not babysit although strangely my grandma babysat my sister and I a lot allowing my parents lots of private/ free/ going out time. I vowed that when I had my own grandchildren I would babysit regularly to allow my son and dil time to themselves which I believe benefits the family as a whole. I'm not talking holidays away just nights when they can have a meal together, go for a drink, do some Christmas shopping or indeed go to work ( as they both work shifts). Also I think
spending time away from mum and dad benefits the children too. They get to see the wider family ( such as it is) they get to do things with my DH and I that they couldn't / wouldn't do with their parents.
Saying that you would never leave your child with anyone is a bit silly imho as no one knows what's around the corner do they? At least my grandchildren are used to being with other people and in a family emergency they would not become stressed by staying with us or the other DGP's . My mum has dedicated her entire life to my dad to the point that she can barely think for herself . My sister and I never felt part of "it". I think the same can be said the other way around and that children would think that their mum belonged to them and them alone, to the point that the mum
Is no longer a person in her own right but simply the mother of Johnny or Jane.

It's a balance but I believe relationship s that pre date the arrival of children should be nutured so to maintain a loving and stable environment for the children to flourish.

Beyond credence that anyone thinks it is a healthy parent/child relationship to go as far as signing a Christmas card mother, child, father. (I would say narcissistic mother).

Yes - I remember the comment that ethel made previously about starting a relationship just to get someone to look after her when she was unwell and then ditch him. And now we have a situation where she apparently told her OH that her would have to take second fiddle to their child.

I believe these to be a wind-up. It is beyond credence that anyone might think or behave in this way.

I think that the children are as important as the relationship and that, ultimately, the best thing you can do for your children is to stay with their father ( providing he isn't a monster obviously).

If you have only one child then you probably get plenty of quality time with your partner anyway but if you've got two or more children it's much harder and parents do need to take a bit of a break away from the children from time to time. I love having my grandchildren so that their parents can have a break. It's lovely to see how refreshed the parents seem when they come back. (As opposed to me and OH who are exhausted by then!)

Reiki, the post was not about single parenting, a subject I have had experience of, but whether the child was more important than the relationship. I happen to think they are both equally important to each other and to the child.

Get the children used to staying with other people from a young age, you never know when you might need them to be where you know they will be happy and looked after. My eldest son (from 1st marriage) stayed with his paternal grandparents from about a month old, good for both sides, and when I had to be in hospital for over a week when he was 18 months old there was no worries over his welfare.
My younger son never had the chance to stay with anyone and hated being away from home (had to pick him up from first sleep over at age 7) and never had the same close relationship with his grandparents as my eldest did with his.
Does everyone good to have time apart.

We have encouraged our DD and son in law to have breaks as a couple. Think it's brilliant for their relationship to have 'couple' time together. They always return so excited to see their little boys knowing we have enjoyed having time with them. I think the whole family benefits and don't think the boys suffer in the least and are equally excited when mummy & daddy return.

We have just looked after our two grandsons for 8 days whilst their mum was abroad. The 3 year old asked after his mum twice and the 5 year old sent his mum a mini video saying he loved her and after that he didn't mention her at all. Their dad was still here but working most of the time.

I only wish someone had offered to look after our son so we could have had a weekend off, but it wasn't an expectation in the 1970s IMO.

Just had a wonderful text from DS who with DDinL have just taken their boys out and at the wishing well the 3 year old said 'I wish nanny and grandad were still here'.

My confession since getting home I am in my pjs and it us only 4.11 and slept through the rugby !