Another wedding problem

DIL might plead 'sick'... there's a lot of colds and flus always going round and no one would think it rude as they live far away. Son can still come with the kids

Glad things may be evening out... and hope for smooth sailing!

Now a decision has been made I hope everything goes well with her wedding eddiecat. Perhaps your d.i.l. wont attend and everyone will be able to relax and enjoy the day.

As devastating as it's been sally I am thankful that we never got to know our eldest GC and of course have never had contact with his little brother. To have built a relationship with your GC, as I know many have, and then to have them taken away is much harder than never having got to know them.

I also believe that if these narcissists are given enough rope they'll eventually hang themselves. I may not be around to see it but it will happen eventually. As for our ES. Perhaps one day he will see her for what she is unfortunately though he's changed so much, almost beyond recognition, that I really don't think a relationship with him in the future is likely.

X post! (It took me ages to type and correct! )

I am glad your DD has made that decision, hope all goes well

Smileless2012, just to add that your response to the DIL is the best way as the narc will thrive on everybodys downfalls, you did the right thing in not letting her do this. Maybe one day, your son will see her for what she is.. destructive, devious and manipulative. Unfortunately, narcs have to have a co dependent to play with and sadly your son will be this to her. Likewise, I worry about the children growing up and like yourself you think about the future in terms of the children growing up in a healthy family home. One thing I will add is what goes around comes around.. you don't need to do anything in response or revenge to the narc... give them a rope and they will hang themselves

I agree with ajenela's posts.

If it is to be a wedding with lots of guests and family members then you should invite her - hold out the olive branch and don't give her another cause to carry on the rift.

There is always the guest or two at a wedding whom you may wish was not there, but for the sake of peace and harmony she should be invited - otherwise her brother may not come either, poor man, he is 'piggy-in-the-middle' here.

As an update - DD has now agreed to invite DIL. I think she quite likes the fact that if DIL is asked and refuses to come people will think her very rude - whereas if she had not been invited people would think DD at fault.
DIL really wants to meet the children before the day as she thinks it will feel very awkward otherwise (the children have no idea who she is). Sadly I don`t think that is likely to happen but at least we have made a step forward

Smileless2012 thanks for your response and I can fully feel where you are at with not seeing your grandchildren. It is heartbreaking to be denied seeing your own flesh and blood and detrimental to the grandchildren too. I see your point in that you didn't play the game and you definitely did the right thing in not doing that. For me, I was pushed from pillar to post and it had major affects on my mental health. My sons ex was very manipulative with people and basically I tip toed around for any years but I had vowed never to interfere in my sons relationship and I never did with their personal issues. I am not in contact with my son and in the last 3 years have barely seen my two grandchildren. I haven't seen them at all since January. I have got used to it now and just get on with my own life as sometimes its easier being out of something than in it.. you know what mean. I think the trick is to avoid these psychopaths and leave them all to it :-)

Why was your DD so distressed? You say she was upset by the hurt caused to you. Might she also be feeling pushed into doing something against her wishes. If she has felt upset by situations like that in the past, maybe at school or with 'friends' where she was pressured to do things, that could be a factor.

I don't think the OP's daughter needs to grow up. She's entitled to be as relaxed as she can be on her wedding day and enjoy the celebrations.

It's hard to believe how destructive someone like the OP's d.i.l. can be, even when you've experienced it first hand. It isn't always as simple as 'life's too short', sadly situations as bad as this are beyond the remit of a family feud, more like the destruction of a family.

Does your son have no view on any of this? It's time he stood up for himself and told his wife (and his sister) to grow up. Life's too short for these family feuds, particularly as you live 200 miles away.

At my daughte's wedding there were all sorts of family conflicts but everybody behaved themselves because, after all, the day belongs to the bride and groom.

sallysuch a terrible experience for you and your family to have gone through. We've not seen our eldest GC since he was 8 months old and have never had any contact with his brother; they are the only 2 GC we have.

Thank goodness we avoided being dangled on a string like you were and so many are. From the beginning we refused to be played. I read on a site about narcissists that the only way to win the game is to refuse to play and I've found that to be the best course of action, painful yes, but better in the long run for us anyway.

I sometimes wonder how long our son's marriage will last, I worry about our GC's childhood and what type of adults they will become. I understand that what's happened has had serious implications for your relationship with your son. I know ours could never be the same again.

I also experienced this with my sons partner of 13 years. She caused a lot of family problems whilst with my son and had full control over my grandchildren to the point where she had me dangling on a string for much of the time. I was also stopped from seeing the children following a family argument that had nothing to do with me. These control freaks of women are dangerous and often very jelous in nature. They skillfully seek to destroy their partners relationships with both family and friends. I walked away from it all after many years of frustration and hurt. My son is no longer with her as she dumped him for someone else after she had screwed up his life. However, its has had serious implications in mine and my sons relationship. These women ned to come with a sign that says" AVOID psychopath and narcissist"

When there's a relationship problem that results in a son severing all contact with his parents and his entire family, even if that begun with his wife's behaviour, it ceases to be an issue just between the m.i.l. and d.i.l. He then becomes a major factor, perhaps starting off by enabling his wife to behave in a particular way by not challenging her. Over a period of time when his role as enabler isn't enough he then proceeds to become as active in the destruction of those relationships as she is.

This is Gransnet and while we do get male contributions from time to time the majority of posters by definition are women, mothers, mothers in law and grandmothers. I haven't seen many posts that would suggest to me that fathers in law are a more tolerant bunch, and there are two regular posters on the estrangement thread whose problems do appear to have been instigated by sons in law.

You said ajanela "These people have friends and family who like and love them. They manage to get with other people in the world. Why don't they get on with us and we with them?" Well our d.i.l. finds it almost impossible to sustain relationships, even with her own family.

They married abroad with only myself and Mr. S. present as she'd all but cut them out of her life. At the age of 18 months, her mother, our GS's only active grandmother was cut out of their lives for 18 months, contacting only being resumed 3 months after the second child was born.

"I believe the men are weak! Bossy women take over. It is a very strange world when daughters in law become very jealous of their mother in law. It is all very sad" Yes, that just about sums up our situation Royandsyl.

Hard to believe isn't it, that a d.i.l. could be so envious of her husband's relationship with his own mother that she'll do whatever it takes to destroy it and that it can happen with sons in law too, but it does. And when extended family members and long standing friends, including some of theirs also see where the problem began there can be no doubt where the responsibility lies.

a very destructive thing.

Well said, ajanela. It has struck me when reading stories of family power struggles on gransnet how many of these seem to occur between mothers-in-law and daughters-in-law. Fathers-in-law seem, from many gransnet stories, to be a much more tolerant bunch. And there are comparatively few mother-in-law/son-in-law power struggles. Funny that.

In all these IL threads we only hear one side of the story. We must remember when our children go into a relationships they are linking with a completely different family and as such culture often very different from our own. These 2 cultures will clash to some extent and our DC will change to fit in with their new family.

Why would our child fall in love with these awful people and stay living with them for many years. These people have friends and family who like and love them. They manage to get on with other people in the world. Why don't they get on with us and we with them?

Is it jealousy, power, control, insecurity, loss on both sides. I don't know but it seems a unique relationship and a difficult path to travel.

weddings are and shoulld be about FAMILY your daughter should realise that by excluding your sons wife and children she'll be causing hurt to both you and your son.It seems both these young women are self centred and need to realise the world or the wedding isn't just about them

I agree with others who say it will create more difficulty by not inviting your son and ALL his family, and if they decline have a quiet word with your son and say you will all be disappointed if he can't join his birth family on this joyous occasion, so he might want to think about coming on his own.

I don't think anyone has thought to wonder why the DIL is so controlling. From personal experience I know that many mental illnesses (often undiagnosed) result in controlling behaviour as a means of coping with the illness. I have a close friend whose daughter has had an eating disorder for over 15 years and thankfully sought help, but the result was that she became controlling in all aspects of her life in order to also control the disorder. Fortunately, she was mature enough (and stable enough) to recognise that control of other people was not acceptable, and made great strides to rectify that - but it did take a lot of effort and counselling, and support from her mother. Fortunately too, she met and married a wonderful man who understood all this and is able to remind her gently and with lots of reassurance when she starts to slip down the same road again. Now she is leading a happy life and appreciates ALL her family, both birth and in-laws.

Perhaps your DIL has her own problems that she hasn't yet come to terms in.

But then, I am know for always looking for the good in people and sadly, sometimes get it wrong.

If your daughter is still adamant she doesn't want to invite her brother and his family I think the brother needs an explanation of why, and they he would be welcome on his own, but at the end of the day the decision is for your daughter to make - it is her special day, hopefully the best of her life, and nothing should be allowed to mar it.

I hope it all goods well.

Meg

This is such a sad situation I'm so sorry your having to jump on the middle of this, your dil sounds just awful. I guess best bet is to change dd mind but why should be have to have a face she dislikes so desperately at one of the most important days of her life. I hope your dd realises to have any chance of brother there she may have to bite the bullet and extend an invitation.

Hope you can find a resolution quickly xx

We know exactly what you are going through. Have been in similar situation for last 27 years. Sister in law causing row after row all blows over, suddenly she will take umbrage over something silly and she starts again. Nasty texts nasty letters etc. My B has her up on a pedastel and always takes her side reagardless which is fair enough. We have stopped seeing her now. Blocked her number on mobile and facebook. My son also getting married next year the couple want my B and his son to go but not the others as they have caused trouble at other family weddings. I would rather none of them were invited but not my wedding so will avoid them all day if I have to. Will be on tenterhooks though. So I know how you feel which is a shame asit takes presidence over wedding plans. Toxic people never change no matter how many times you try to hold out an olive branch. Good Luck.

Didn't mean to, repeat the last sentence

Eddicat

Just logged on briefly and read your first post.

Now convinced that your son is married to the same woman who is my sons partner!

Identical characteristics - a bitch who pretends everything is ok when other people are around. I nearly fainted yesterday when son said SHE had said she would like us to go to Xmas dinner with them ( others will be there). If we did, it would be 18 months since we have had any real contact with her and yet they live just ten minutes away.

You couldn't make it up, could you?

Seriously, you couldn't make it up!

This is the time to support your daughter and her plans for her Wedding. You cannot control every situation as this or that might happen. Enjoy the day and don't let anyone else sploil it.

Hi addicat the sad thing here is that so very many of us are in the exact situation that you are with their DILs. Hundreds of miles away just longing to have a relationship with their families but NO MATTER what tack they take and believe me over 11 years I have tried them all DIL is not going to play ball. Ajalena I think it was got it right so if we were all rational caring people we would put everything aside invite DIL and family and hope it all works out! In the end she may decide not to attend and that's probably what DD wants, hopefully your son would still attend with the children...again in an ideal world but who knows. We have no control over situations like this and if only we could stand back and not let them hurt us....she continues to win if they do.....but so difficult where GC are involved. It is your DDs wedding day and I wish you and her much happiness.

I believe the men are weak! Bossy women take over. It is a very strange world where daughters in law become very jealous of their mothers-in-law. It is all very sad.
Hope you all enjoy your daughter's wedding day. Why would somebody want to spoil it?

eddiecat

How did things go at the wedding when your son married this DIL from hell? Did she give your daughter a hard time then? (Am curious what HER mother is like with your son).

It seems the right thing to do-- to rise above her level invite your son and his family to your daughter's wedding. BUT, your daughter should tell her brother in no uncertain terms, that his wife is to freakin' BEHAVE. This is his sister's big day.

He will know what the DIL from hell's agenda will be and he may well leave her home if he's worried. He will know she risks making an ass out of herself in front of a lot of guests who will wonder who the ejit is with. Or they may laugh at her stupid antics if that's her game. No matter, your son must support his sister and guarantee that her big day will not be ruined. If he cannot/will not do that, then he will have to accept not being invited and free to go home and tell her-indoors why.

As others have said... you cannot condone this kind of behaviour. If my future DIL ever acted like that to me (and she would not... we have a loving relationship... knock on wood), our relationship with son (husband's, I married a widower) would be a distant one with visits from him only. I know inside stepson would not like that and would stand up to his fiancee. Or she would probably not even become his intended if she was like that as his family is important to him. He was brought up to be polite and tolerant. He's not a wimp, but makes an effort to get on with people. He has to, he owns his own business.

WTF is wrong with people these days? And we wonder why we end up with CEOs like Philip Green or Mike Ashley, or in my country of birth, presidential candidates like Trump.

Bleagh!!!