Should the catholic church be asking schoolchildren to sign this petition?

Well, men who purport to be celibate, Joan!

Ha ha - well, at the very least they're a load of wa-wa- er..... wallies

Absolutely not. How can a child of 11 be expected to even understand what they are being asked ?

I hate all religion I really do. I am convinced it is the route of all evil.

gillybob - I also hate most organised religions (still unsure about Quakerism, as they seem pretty inclusive - I just think they are wrong to believe in any supernatural being) - but I think we have to make it clear that we are not hostile to any individual believer - just the ones who try impose their own beliefs on us via the law.

Hi Greatnan I was brought up by a religious (although not obsessive) family and as I got older I have questioned this belief in something or someone who can hand out good and evil like party bags. My argument is such that if God (or whoever) is good why does he choose to hand out poverty, illness and tragedy to some and riches, good health and happiness to others?

No good using logic to understand the illogical, gillybob!

My main gripe with religion is that it teaches people about reward and punishment in an imaginary afterlife, which can compromise efforts to make a better life and a better world for us all in this life. When you think about it, what greater tool for control of a population could there be?

I am livid Innocent children are abused by priests and the Church listens to countless acts of contrition so that they may be duly forgiven. Where is the justice in that? I'm proud to call myself an atheist. When I do wrong, I feel bad, and try to do better. By gum, if I believed that simply by confessing, I could wipe my slate clean, my entire life would have seemed so much more carefree. My rambling may not make a lot of sense. I'm not that articulate [an age thing] but I feel that sometimes it's beneficial to let off steam...

soop While I have no truck with Catholicism or, indeed, any organised religion, it should be pointed out that "simply confessing" is not something that "wipes the slate clean". Genuine contrition and a commitment to avoid the sin in the future after careful examination of your conscience are parts of the process. That some Catholics just garble through confession followed by a couple of Hail Marys doesn't change this. I'm uncertain about what gives the priest the authority to forgive sins on behalf of god – but that's men for you.

Digging into my ancient brain, I think I remember that someone reported that Jesus said to the apostles: Whose sins ye shall forgive, they are forgiven. Whose sins you shall retain, they are retained'.
Yes, catholics are taught that you need a 'firm purpose of amendment' if god is going to forgive you. I wonder if the abusing priests had one, when they confessed to each other?
I can't get the programme about this out of my mind - I just keep raging at the thought of those priests, (with their soft, white hands which had never done a day's proper work), being treated with reverence and respect by the parents whose children were being brutally raped.

Absent and Greatnan Your messages are a perfect reflection of my feelings on this matter.

Sorry greatnan didn't make it clear. We had to decide whether the dvd could be shown because of the condom machine in the background. Would it promote the use of condoms lol?

soop Greatnan * absent*. Couldn't agree more!

What is the point of the petition? What is it intended to do? Who is it pet ironing?

jeni, Stop ironing that guinea pig!!!!! I told you before. He prefers to be fluffy!

petioning!

or even 'petitioning'? It's that i-pad again, isn't it?

Yea

Child abuse to fluffy guinea pigs - only on gransnet!

They want catholics to sign a petition against allowing same-sex couples to marry. They say a civil partnership is just the same as marriage - so why can't they call it marriage?
If it wasn't so awful, it would be funny for that institution to be banging on about the sanctity of marriage given what they have done to the sanctity of childhood.

And don't even allow their priests to marry!

One has to bear in mind that children are already indoctrinated with various subjects. They are taught the aspects of homosexuality from a very early age, which seems to be almost encouraging this activity.
The issue of halal meat being served at school meals is another subject that has raised controversy, as it is seen to be a form of indoctrination to Islam.
Marginilisation of competitiveness in sport introduces a negative aspect of trying one`s best to reach a high standard, which bodes ill, when working in the real world.

horatio, I do not wish to be rude, but your views on homosexuality seem to be completely at odds with the facts. You cannot encourage someone to have red hair or blue eyes and you cannot encourage them to embrace a sexual identity which they do not have. Your remarks will be quite hurtful to all those members who are homosexual, or have gay children.
On the totally unrelated subject of halal meat in schools, we have discussed this at length on another thread. It is served in most official establishments because it is cheaper for the suppliers to use only one source - it has nothing to do with trying to turn people into Muslims.

On the equally unrelated subject of competitiveness in sports, I think those children who which to take part in various sports find that most games/PE teachers are more than ready to encourage competition. Personally, I found enough competitiveness in life, work, and study without looking for it where I didn't need it.

Greatnan; Oh dear me, what a peculiar statement regarding eye colour. That facet is established by nature, and the only way that anyone could change it, is if they were persuaded to wear a coloured contact lens. Very uncomfortable. I hope that I haven`t offended people who choose to wear them!
Have you neve heard the expression that Universities, and the navy are breeding grounds for homosexuality? Yes people can be influenced to different aspects of life, especially if they are taught these at a very vulnerable time in their life, and believe it to be quite acceptable.
Look how Hitler managed to brainwash the German children into believing that he was some kind of Messiah, to the extent that they would even inform on their own parents to the Gestapo!
Now don`t tell me that they would have done that without influence, as that would mean that a whole generation of children were unnatural!
No Greatnan, my comments are relevant if you take the time to think about it.
Halal type meat is abhorred by the majority of people, due to the cruelty involved. There is no question of the price, but simply it is a way of getting us used to Muslim traditions, and laws; ie brainwashing. There is much more that I could say, but it would be off topic.
Most schools operate a system whereby competitiveness is discouraged, as, they claim it makes the losers feel inferior, so the pupils get used to this type of sport. I would deem that to a type of indoctrination into an unreal situatiomn. I think that your last line stresses that fact.

I don't think children should be asked to sign petitions about anything. However, if children want to petition about something that directly affects them, then I am all in favour of their taking action.

horatio I don't think that the national curriculum specifically includes indoctrination of children to encourage homosexual activity. As for universities – are you aware that they admit women students these days so they are undoubtedly breeding grounds for heterosexual activity too?

Not sure where you source your "facts" Horatio on a number of subjects.
"Most Schools" discouraging competitiveness? Check that out with the nations PE teachers maybe? They would appear to be teaching, in the main , competitive sports with winners and losers. As for the Muslim plot to indoctrinate the world into Islam by means of halal meat... The issue about whether or not it is cruel slaughter is a red herring.
Back to the RCs - they are trying to impose their values on the legislation of the country (again).
No one is passing a law that tells them that RCs have to change their definition of "marriage". Words can have different meanings to different people and groups of people after all.
And no one is trying to legislate that RC priests have to conduct gay weddings.
So what is their problem.... they want to impose their values on the law and hence on everyone else. What's new. Same old story as with abortion, contraception, divorce... they would like to write the rules for everyone.