elderly in hospital

Like so many of you I also feel guilty about putting my head in the sand. My mother died in 2009 in a private nursing home at the age of 99. But she was in Poole Hospital a few years before with a broken hip. Without her family being around she would have been totally ignored by the so called nursing staff. She was partially sighted and totally deaf. Her hearing aids whistled because they didn't fit correctly, so the nurses took them away, or rather hid them, saying the whistling annoyed the other patients. Her food was put on her trolley at the end of the bed but sometimes she was asleep and sometimes she didn't hear them. The food was rarely eaten. When they came to take away the tray they would ask why she had not eaten her lunch - she would reply she didn't know it was there - so they would take it away saying it had now gone cold. In the mornings she was put on the side chair so that the bedding could be changed. By the afternoon the bedding had still not been changed and she would have to try and sleep in an upright chair. Unless we were there to change the bed, feed her with her lunch and put in her hearing aids she could not have coped. She was in her mid nineties and was getting no care whatsoever. The nurses excuse was that they were short staffed.
I feel guilty that I accepted this excuse, but there was NO CARE whatsoever - no care because the patients were old and their voices didn't count.

I, too, am terrified of going to hospital or ending up in a care home. I always suspected that when the post-war bulge - as we used to be called - reached old age, the moral objection to voluntary euthanasia would suddenly disappear. After watching Panorama on the Bristol care home and contemplating the horrors that are being visited, as I write, on the old, the young and the vulnerable, I would rather commit suicide than end up confused, terrified, hungry, thirsty and lying in my own faeces being tormented or ignored by sadistic morons. The CQC is a disgrace.

We desperately need to grow Gransnet. Together we can change things; individually we will waste our energies. Advertise Gransnet on the back windows of cars; recruit in supermarkets and book clubs; let's design a Gransnet badge; let's run, hop, hobble or crawl for Gransnet and grow so big that no politician, no lazy minister will be able to hide from us.

Jangran mentions a diificult problem about getting information and being told it is confidential. My mother had vascular dementia and needed us to be her ears and voice, so how was she supposed to understand what was happening and keep us informed?? I too read her notes because I had to. I understand staff have to protect a person's privacy but surely common sense has to prevail here and staff should be pleased a son or daughter wants to know what's happening.

I always went out of my way to be polite with staff and to be honest I have often wondered if that might have been part of the problem. I do wish now that I had been less naive at the beginning. I trusted people to be professional and I hate having to write now about such negative experiences. I can assure anyone who is beginning to think the problem might be in MY attitude, that I bent over backwards to see the situation from an overworked workforce, but ended up distraught by the reality that some medical staff are quite desensitised and much harder and tougher than I will ever be.

I am also concerned that whenever my mother was hospitalised I had to start all ove again giving information about my mother's medical history, being asked if she had any medical problems, even though I had lost count of how often my mother had been on the same ward in the same hospital over about 8 years! After one particularly bad spell, when she had been admitted 3 times in two and a half weeks because they kept sending her back to the Care Home even though her pneumonia was not cured, a doctor came into the cubicle and asked, "So what's the problem?" That was a low moment! What happens if an elderly person doesn't have a family member who knows her history? Who answers the questions on the admission form which takes up so much of the nurses' time as they sit there ticking endless boxes?

Perhaps when further reports are published by the CQC in September as promised, I might be comforted to hear that the vast majority of hospitals are doing a wonderful job and that my experiences and those of most of the people writing here are an aberration. But I'm not holding my breath.

I'm going on one of the cheerful forums now because I feel so depressed!!

Just realised (again!) that when you get to the "Add your comment" box it's not necessarily the end of the thread, so I've repeated stuff that's already been said. Sorry, folks! Great to read everyone's stories and ideas, anyway.

It sounds as though we need a Retired Nurses Campaign to make a loud noise about all this, but in the meantime maybe if everyone who has posted on this thread could email their story to Andrew Lansley or else their MP - or both, that would be a start. Maybe the most important thing is not only to tell the horror stories, but to tell those in power where we think the system has gone wrong.
I've never been a nurse, but I do seem to remember in the 70s, there being some concern about the new regime with SENs and SRNs; also gkal's sentence "There were male managers instead of Matrons" jumped out at me: that must have made an enormous difference. Also, an all-graduate body of nurses must have seemed a good idea at the time , but now we're hearing that they seem too posh to actually do the work! Can that policy be reversed I wonder?
Let's get campaigning, grannies!

Jangran - you are so articulate. I found your message very moving. I shall probably need to have bowel surgery in the not-too-distant future. However, because I'm so afraid of being treated with disdain [because I'm classed as elderly and therefore likely to be a bit of a nuisance] I am hoping to goodness that I may soldier on, untreated, and continue to manage my problem as best I can. Isn't that a sad reflection on so-called modern-day health-care?

What a relief to hear about other people's experiences. I have almost been brainwashed into thinking that I was the only one who felt there was a problem. Almost, but not quite...

I think that the rot set in when "social care" was detached from "nursing care" during the 1980s. At that point, nursing became a profession that could regard actually looking after someone as somewhat degrading.

I have had nasty experiences in my local hospital during my father's illnesses (he had vascular dementia) and more recently when my mother was hospitalised with pneumonia. In both cases I found the nurses' attitudes moving from indifferent to officious to hostile as I attempted (as politely as possible) to find out what was going on. It turned out there was quite a bit to cover up in the end.

Two things, though, stand out. First, my father, neglected just as several gransnet correspondents have described - it was impossible to discuss his condition with a nurse, so I took to looking at the folder at the end of his bed to see what (if any) treatment he was getting). The folder was then removed between my visits and I never saw it again. It turned out after he returned home the first time that his medication for dementia had been discontinued without telling us. His mental health therefore deteriorated whilst he was in hospital. The second time he was hospitalised, the same things happened. There was one difference however - this time a nurse took the time to speak to us. Unfortunately, though, she just wanted to discuss how we were going to get him removed from hospital (bed blocking) and into a private care home.

Secondly, my mother. Again I found it difficult to get anyone to talk to me, but when I did, I discovered that she was not receiving the medication prescribed by the admissions doctor, and had not been seen by any other doctor. After that, I resorted to looking at her folder, until a particularly hostile nurse demanded it back. It was, she said, confidential. Mother asked, fairly calmly, I thought, why, in that case, was it kept on a bed in an open ward. No answer was forthcoming, so I made an official complaint. It turned out that the folders were kept there in absolute contradiction of hospital policy regarding confidential information. But they were, however, convenient for the nurses...

Another thing - mother was never told about how washing facilities were organised and did not like to ask for fear of "giving trouble". So my fastidious 84 year old mother, who always starts her day with a bath or a shower, was kept unwashed for a whole week. Her self-esteem suffered, but since I could speak up for her, she eventually managed to be offered a bath. The lady in the bed opposite, who did not seem to have any relatives never had any washes either.

Hello everybody,

What a simply fascinating collection of experiences -as you might expect, we found many very worrying and some so bleak and desperately sad. The terrible things that have happen to the frail, infirm and vulnerable at the hands of the so-called caring professions deeply disturbs us.

We have our 53 years of marriage and three children in their near 50s to draw upon - especially as our daughter is a senior children's intensive care nurse and her husband a pediatrician. For many years we have pondered on the nature of the "care" the younger-generation give to our elderly - be they professional, family or friends.

Right now are actually preparing a related research project. This will not be so much about care as such ( there are very many experts and media doing this already) buit will be more about the AFFECTION felt for the ELDERLY. Common sense seems to tell us that you can't really have genuine care without affection - so we believe that to improve care, perhapswe need to start taking a closer look at the part played by affection - and that's affection generally - and way beyond medical world.

Incidentally, the 'working title' for our research will be "Affection for the elderly: the community glue?".

Any thoughts, ideas or reactions on this will be hugely appreciated and welcomed.

Thanks,
Hippo and spouse

I trained as a nurse in the late 1980's and in that relatively short time the biggest damage i have seen is the regulatory bodies (who change their name but is the Quality care comission now) Thsese groups have decided to judge how well a ward is doing by tick boxes. Have you done this, did you ask the patient that,on and on. To back this up nurses are spending time sat at computers logging all this infornmtion to show the regulators when they visit. A recent panorama programme about abuse in a mental health home shows how utterly pointless this is. They ticked all the boxes and then systematicaly abused the vunerable patients in their care.
The place i last worked in the healthcare commision as they were then known would have a short visit on the ward and then spend hours looking at our paperwork
I would like to see staff that are outside of the hospital or unit work regulalry on the unit and also introduce mystery shoppers. Patients who agree to do an independant report on their experience

Reading all these my heart goes out to those involved, but I am a little concerned that there may be people reading this who are about to go into hospital so I want to balance things a little. My mother is 89 this year, she has had a number of treatments at different hospitals in the past 10 years and the care she has had has been incredible. If you are thinking this is probably a narrow or limited view well she's been in 5 different hospitals and visited 3 as an outpatient. The areas she has had treatment in include musculo-skeletal, haematology, maxio-facial, rheumatology and a heart unit.So fairly wide!! The treatment and care she has received has been amazing. And I am so grateful to the doctors and nurses who have cared for her and enabled her to continue to live an active and productive life. What has shocked me on my visits to hospital wards are the number of old people 'dumped' by their families.They sit without visitors or company, becoming increasingly confused and making unnecessary demands on overworked staff. A few words of advice for anyone with a relative in hospital- visit often (usually visiting hours are fairly flexible and no-one will mind if you stay longer), get to know the nurses and TALK to them (don't just complain), help out by doing things for the person you are visiting. Caring is something which works best when we all do our bit, expecting the professionals to take care of everything is totally unreasonable.

I too suffered agism in Hospital .Recovering from a colonectomy I was being helped by a physio to walk the length of the ward. She asked me in a very patronising way' Do you use a stick at home ,Dear?' 'No, I said through gritted teeth, 'At home I ride a bicycle !' I was 70 at the time. A good tip when going into hospital is to take a framed photo of yourself, looking splendid,with the grandchildren. I think we sometimes look so awful after an op. that staff can be forgiven for thinking we are older than we actually are. However that is no excuse for some of the awful things that are happenning. By the way ,is it only women who are treated so badly? My husband broke his neck in his seventies and had the most splendid treatment.

My husband was in hospital over Xmas and New Year after emergency surgery for a broken hip. The surgeon and his team were brilliant. The nurses on the wards were caring but there was no co ordination. No one to oversee what patient needed what care on that day. Why not bring back Ward Sisters? Or some equivilant. Somebody who can walk the ward, see what is and (often more importantly!) isnt happening and make sure that the patients needs are dealt with. If it hadnt been for a Burmese doctor who spent a lot of time one afternoon carefully observing my husband, a DVT would have gone undetected. That is the other thing that upset me. It used to be that the ward was one room with nurses there all the time. Now there are all these little rooms leading off a corridor and so no chance for the staff to really see how a patient is faring.
Rant over. One of the ladies summed it up beautifully---
CARE WITH DIGNITY
Thats what we want!

Most institutions fear adverse publicity. If you or someone you know has experienced poor care put your complaint in writing to your MP, your local newspaper AND the institution. It would seem that those charged with investigating allegations of poor care, like the abuses in Bristol, don't do much, and the media has to investigate. A single episode of poor care gets a little attention. A campaign against poor care consisting of a constant barrage of complaints to MPs and the media may raise the profile of this issue. Poor care for elderly people who are much more vulnerable is a violation of their rights and a form of abuse. If we don't protest about it, and draw it to the attention of the public, it will continue.

Please don't forget there are some of us caring people still left in the profession. I trained in the late 70s and am still working. I do know for a fact that dignity and care are a thing of the past for some nurses, but some of us still do care.
I currently work on a nurse led discharge unit and I can say that our patients are cared for. Most of us who work on there still just about remember the Matrons, and a few of us were Stated Enrolled before converting to Registered General Nurses. I think nursing took a dive when the training went to the Universities, and yes it is true you do get staff nurses who look down there noses at doing some basic patient care but please spare a thought for us who try to keep some of the standards that we were taught.

Having written a formal complaint re my Mother's lack of care in hospital in vain hope others would not suffer I received several generated letters saying I would be contacted eventually folowed by on placatory-we have looked into it an are trialling new procedures. I too am concerned about our needs, having had to fight for care for both my mother & mother in lawI am not confident the 'system, will have improved when our turn comes. We were able to use their property to pay for care at £3000 per month that will not be available for us

Hi, ageism exists everywhere, it seems that once you pass the age of 50 you are ignored and considered too expensive and experienced to be employed. There is massive push to 'voluntary retire' anyone from 55yrs old in the health service. Also when a student nurse finishes her inadequate training she has to then apply for a nusing job somewhere in the so-called 'careing' profession. This is to facilitate a cheaper workforce by employing students and foreign immigrants. The present day student and qualified nurses have no experience in handling 'living' patients and because of lack of staff we are seeing very poor health care. Unfortunatly because of the UK's general lack of respect and uncaring attitude towards their elders, we will continue to suffer from ageism. By the way, I was an NHS Biomedical Scientist who was retired early to save the NHS money! The Discipline that I worked in requires years of experience and the majority of the staff left in the Dignostic Lab. where I was employed are young and inexperienced. Quality and standards are suffering everywhere in the health service in order to save money and where the sick are not patients but 'clients'.

I have been shocked by all the stories and comments. I have been involved in fighting to preserve care services for the elderly in a rural area of Scotland. Care services in Scotland are devolved to the Scottish Government, so if the appalling care happens in hospital, ask to speak to the duty manager, if no improvement, write immediately to the Chief Executive of the hospital or phone his office for an appointment, keeping a copy of the letter, if you don't get a response within say 5 working days then send a copy of the letter to the Chair of the local health board and your MSP. If the problem happens in a private care home, speak to the manager, if no improvement then write or phone the Care Inspection Unit contact details are given in their website www.scswis.com. If the problem is in a local authority care home, speak to the manager, if no joy then write or phone the Head of Social work. If the problem relates to home care or day care then phone and ask to speak to the manager if no joy then go to the top and don't give up. You could also go to your relatives GP and ask for his or her help after all he or she will have to pick up the pieces. I was asked by an official, rather snottily what was my criteria for care? I replied that I loved by Mum and Dad to bits and if the care would have been good enough for them in my eyes if would be could enough for anyone - that was my criteria. I got no response. We in Gransnet could be such an effective voice.

It seems to me that what is upsetting people more than anything is the attitude of the medical staff , especially nurses as they are the ones patients and relatives have most contact with, and money doesn't need to be spent to change that.

I used to sympathise so much with nurses, under pressure because of wards being understaffed and because the job places great physical and emotional pressure on them. I do still recognise that all those factors play a part, but what is so unforgiveable is the sheer rudeness of too many individual nurses towards patients and relatives. We all feel we are in THEIR world and that they are doing us a favour and that no-one understands the pressure of their job. Well no-one is more stressed than a sick person and their family, frightend by illness in an alien environment.

In The Times to day Daniel Filkenstein talks of standing at a nurses' station being ignored by 6 staff. (Approaching the nurses station is a steep learning curve, like being the new kid in the playground going up to The Gang to see if they'll accept you!! ) Finally, he attracted the attention of a doctor who waved a hand towards another staff member, not even taking his eyes of his computer screen. Oh the memories! There just isn't any excuse for this rudeness. Spend a night in A&E with a sick relative and you will begin to feel your relative has become hospital property and that you are an irrelevance.

So, attitudes are fundamental, which means stricter supervision of staff through eyes and ears, not bits of paper. Then the good staff won't have to carry the deadwood and the deadwood can change or be sacked. In the case of elderly people who can't speak for themselves a named relative must be recognised and communicated with rather than being treated as an irritant. I could go on, but I must stop as the bile is beginning to rise yet again!!

Ah gkal - uniforms! Our hospital, like many hospitals before the 1970's ,had their own style of cap and woe betide you if you couldn't make it up properly. We had light blue cotton dresses with an apron that buttoned on - not to be worn outside of the ward - also long sleeves which were worn up and in cuffs when on the ward. Black shoes and stockings and a lovely navy blue cape with a red lining. [which we wore inside out at our Xmas ward round which we did on Xmas Eve going around each ward singing carols]. If you had to wear your uniform beyond the confines of the hospital for example if you were going on a training session, you wore a navy blue gaberdine mac and a matching hat. We were very proud of our uniform. Our training was tough and some of the ward sisters could be out-and-out cows - my first ward sister was fearsome but the training I had from her has lasted me all my life. She ran a tight ship but our patients were cared for, no chatting at a nurses station, time for a chat 'go clean the sluice room'. We were trained to treat our elderly patients with dignity and respect, if a patient didn't have a visitor one of us would be assigned to visit. I could go on and on. Medically science has progressed beyond expectation but true nursing, caring for people, has gone for ever. It was almost looked upon as a vocation, I don't really want that as it seemed a good way of not paying us decently. However, I think it's a shame that the true nurse, not a nursing technician, has gone forever.

I feel the all system is wrong, run by bean counters, not the caring profession! I had some example when my daughter was in hospital after birth of baby. Someone somewhere in the system obviously thought that it would be cheaper if nurses, who are graduates after all, didn't do the simple task an untrained assistant could do. Result: Graduate Nurse prescribed "flight socks" for my daughter, as she was concerned about blood clotting, but Nurses’ time is too expensive to spend it measuring legs, and getting stocking out of cupboard, and fitting them, so this was referred to health care assistant i.e., written up in duty book. It took up to 8 hours for my daughter to be fitted with stockings! This is the reason why patients go unfed, unwashed, there is no continuity in the care.

Good point, Agedknees. There are strict ratios of carers to children in child care facilities. Older people are vulnerable too for a host of different reasons and legislation would be a step in the right direction.

GeraldinGransnet please, just get the ball rolling on our behalf. Like wee terrier dogs with a rag doll between our teeth, we should stand our ground and not let go!

Legalised registered nurse to patient ratios in this country. There is proven evidence that patients nursed by qualified staff have a much better outcome.

Often in a 32 bedded ward there are only 2 qualified staff (especially on nights) to patients. How is that safe?

Count me in. I've shaken a can for Age UK until my hand froze! They must have a campaigns department.