elderly in hospital

twizzle what are you? You are a *

mamanC...thanks for your support. I'm really thankful that I signed on to Gransnet. It's just so comforting to know that I'm far from alone with my concerns.

So ... what are we going to DO about this?

Everything that is written here is true. Once nurses were respected and caring,,,,not any more. Once patient care was at the heart of every ward...not any more.

Any suggestions for an actual campaign?

I for one am more than happy to march on Downing Street !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When my late aunt was in a district general hospital, usually highly regarded for its standards, I had to draw the nursing staff's attention to the fact that the tube in her arm had come out and was flooding the bed. I was also struck by the unwelcome fact that the geriatric ward was in the most inaccessible part of the hospital, difficult for elderly visitors to reach, whereas the maternity and paediatric wards were much closer to the entrance and far easier for visitors (mostly younger and fitter) to access. Don't they ever consider the kind of visitors patients are likely to have?

NanaAnna - me too. Although I live in Scotland, I wish with all my heart to be counted.

Anyone who would like more details about the inspection report can go on the Care Quality Commission's website and read it in full (Dignity & Nutrition for Older People). Up to now,12 hospitals have been inspected and they hope to do 100 by September. Thankfully, it is not all doom and gloom and there is also praise for excellent practice in some hospitals. We just need to ensure that everywhere else meets the standards of the best! People can also contact the Care Quality Commission about their personal experiences of poor care, via their website.
I think it was as a result of pressure from Age UK that these inspections are being carried out. They have an ongoing campaign about it called "Still Hungry to be Heard". I would suggest possibly contacting Age UK as a group and asking what we can do. This is a high profile issue at the moment and the powers that be will be taking notice.

Magsie your suggestion to contact Age UK as a group makes sense. Any other Gransnetters agree?

Geraldine Gransnet (GNHQ) Let's do it. Mumsnet made a great impact politically. How much more powerful would a gransnet campaign be. I know we all complain about being overlooked, but politicians never forget that we are the generation that turns out in the largest numbers to vote – year, after year, after year…

There is a lady on the thread about pensions who says that she works for Age UK. I wonder if she could help us? She hasn't posted for a while though.

I feel confident that Geraldine Gransnet will play her part. Watch this space

I agree with Magsie and supernana about contacting Age Uk. Is it best for us all to write or to write a s a group? Either way I am in to do what we can.

Count me in. I've shaken a can for Age UK until my hand froze! They must have a campaigns department.

Legalised registered nurse to patient ratios in this country. There is proven evidence that patients nursed by qualified staff have a much better outcome.

Often in a 32 bedded ward there are only 2 qualified staff (especially on nights) to patients. How is that safe?

GeraldinGransnet please, just get the ball rolling on our behalf. Like wee terrier dogs with a rag doll between our teeth, we should stand our ground and not let go!

Good point, Agedknees. There are strict ratios of carers to children in child care facilities. Older people are vulnerable too for a host of different reasons and legislation would be a step in the right direction.

I feel the all system is wrong, run by bean counters, not the caring profession! I had some example when my daughter was in hospital after birth of baby. Someone somewhere in the system obviously thought that it would be cheaper if nurses, who are graduates after all, didn't do the simple task an untrained assistant could do. Result: Graduate Nurse prescribed "flight socks" for my daughter, as she was concerned about blood clotting, but Nurses’ time is too expensive to spend it measuring legs, and getting stocking out of cupboard, and fitting them, so this was referred to health care assistant i.e., written up in duty book. It took up to 8 hours for my daughter to be fitted with stockings! This is the reason why patients go unfed, unwashed, there is no continuity in the care.

Ah gkal - uniforms! Our hospital, like many hospitals before the 1970's ,had their own style of cap and woe betide you if you couldn't make it up properly. We had light blue cotton dresses with an apron that buttoned on - not to be worn outside of the ward - also long sleeves which were worn up and in cuffs when on the ward. Black shoes and stockings and a lovely navy blue cape with a red lining. [which we wore inside out at our Xmas ward round which we did on Xmas Eve going around each ward singing carols]. If you had to wear your uniform beyond the confines of the hospital for example if you were going on a training session, you wore a navy blue gaberdine mac and a matching hat. We were very proud of our uniform. Our training was tough and some of the ward sisters could be out-and-out cows - my first ward sister was fearsome but the training I had from her has lasted me all my life. She ran a tight ship but our patients were cared for, no chatting at a nurses station, time for a chat 'go clean the sluice room'. We were trained to treat our elderly patients with dignity and respect, if a patient didn't have a visitor one of us would be assigned to visit. I could go on and on. Medically science has progressed beyond expectation but true nursing, caring for people, has gone for ever. It was almost looked upon as a vocation, I don't really want that as it seemed a good way of not paying us decently. However, I think it's a shame that the true nurse, not a nursing technician, has gone forever.

It seems to me that what is upsetting people more than anything is the attitude of the medical staff , especially nurses as they are the ones patients and relatives have most contact with, and money doesn't need to be spent to change that.

I used to sympathise so much with nurses, under pressure because of wards being understaffed and because the job places great physical and emotional pressure on them. I do still recognise that all those factors play a part, but what is so unforgiveable is the sheer rudeness of too many individual nurses towards patients and relatives. We all feel we are in THEIR world and that they are doing us a favour and that no-one understands the pressure of their job. Well no-one is more stressed than a sick person and their family, frightend by illness in an alien environment.

In The Times to day Daniel Filkenstein talks of standing at a nurses' station being ignored by 6 staff. (Approaching the nurses station is a steep learning curve, like being the new kid in the playground going up to The Gang to see if they'll accept you!! ) Finally, he attracted the attention of a doctor who waved a hand towards another staff member, not even taking his eyes of his computer screen. Oh the memories! There just isn't any excuse for this rudeness. Spend a night in A&E with a sick relative and you will begin to feel your relative has become hospital property and that you are an irrelevance.

So, attitudes are fundamental, which means stricter supervision of staff through eyes and ears, not bits of paper. Then the good staff won't have to carry the deadwood and the deadwood can change or be sacked. In the case of elderly people who can't speak for themselves a named relative must be recognised and communicated with rather than being treated as an irritant. I could go on, but I must stop as the bile is beginning to rise yet again!!

I have been shocked by all the stories and comments. I have been involved in fighting to preserve care services for the elderly in a rural area of Scotland. Care services in Scotland are devolved to the Scottish Government, so if the appalling care happens in hospital, ask to speak to the duty manager, if no improvement, write immediately to the Chief Executive of the hospital or phone his office for an appointment, keeping a copy of the letter, if you don't get a response within say 5 working days then send a copy of the letter to the Chair of the local health board and your MSP. If the problem happens in a private care home, speak to the manager, if no improvement then write or phone the Care Inspection Unit contact details are given in their website www.scswis.com. If the problem is in a local authority care home, speak to the manager, if no joy then write or phone the Head of Social work. If the problem relates to home care or day care then phone and ask to speak to the manager if no joy then go to the top and don't give up. You could also go to your relatives GP and ask for his or her help after all he or she will have to pick up the pieces. I was asked by an official, rather snottily what was my criteria for care? I replied that I loved by Mum and Dad to bits and if the care would have been good enough for them in my eyes if would be could enough for anyone - that was my criteria. I got no response. We in Gransnet could be such an effective voice.

Hi, ageism exists everywhere, it seems that once you pass the age of 50 you are ignored and considered too expensive and experienced to be employed. There is massive push to 'voluntary retire' anyone from 55yrs old in the health service. Also when a student nurse finishes her inadequate training she has to then apply for a nusing job somewhere in the so-called 'careing' profession. This is to facilitate a cheaper workforce by employing students and foreign immigrants. The present day student and qualified nurses have no experience in handling 'living' patients and because of lack of staff we are seeing very poor health care. Unfortunatly because of the UK's general lack of respect and uncaring attitude towards their elders, we will continue to suffer from ageism. By the way, I was an NHS Biomedical Scientist who was retired early to save the NHS money! The Discipline that I worked in requires years of experience and the majority of the staff left in the Dignostic Lab. where I was employed are young and inexperienced. Quality and standards are suffering everywhere in the health service in order to save money and where the sick are not patients but 'clients'.

Having written a formal complaint re my Mother's lack of care in hospital in vain hope others would not suffer I received several generated letters saying I would be contacted eventually folowed by on placatory-we have looked into it an are trialling new procedures. I too am concerned about our needs, having had to fight for care for both my mother & mother in lawI am not confident the 'system, will have improved when our turn comes. We were able to use their property to pay for care at £3000 per month that will not be available for us

Please don't forget there are some of us caring people still left in the profession. I trained in the late 70s and am still working. I do know for a fact that dignity and care are a thing of the past for some nurses, but some of us still do care.
I currently work on a nurse led discharge unit and I can say that our patients are cared for. Most of us who work on there still just about remember the Matrons, and a few of us were Stated Enrolled before converting to Registered General Nurses. I think nursing took a dive when the training went to the Universities, and yes it is true you do get staff nurses who look down there noses at doing some basic patient care but please spare a thought for us who try to keep some of the standards that we were taught.

Most institutions fear adverse publicity. If you or someone you know has experienced poor care put your complaint in writing to your MP, your local newspaper AND the institution. It would seem that those charged with investigating allegations of poor care, like the abuses in Bristol, don't do much, and the media has to investigate. A single episode of poor care gets a little attention. A campaign against poor care consisting of a constant barrage of complaints to MPs and the media may raise the profile of this issue. Poor care for elderly people who are much more vulnerable is a violation of their rights and a form of abuse. If we don't protest about it, and draw it to the attention of the public, it will continue.

My husband was in hospital over Xmas and New Year after emergency surgery for a broken hip. The surgeon and his team were brilliant. The nurses on the wards were caring but there was no co ordination. No one to oversee what patient needed what care on that day. Why not bring back Ward Sisters? Or some equivilant. Somebody who can walk the ward, see what is and (often more importantly!) isnt happening and make sure that the patients needs are dealt with. If it hadnt been for a Burmese doctor who spent a lot of time one afternoon carefully observing my husband, a DVT would have gone undetected. That is the other thing that upset me. It used to be that the ward was one room with nurses there all the time. Now there are all these little rooms leading off a corridor and so no chance for the staff to really see how a patient is faring.
Rant over. One of the ladies summed it up beautifully---
CARE WITH DIGNITY
Thats what we want!