elderly in hospital

lynne will you organise us please? We need a leader.

ps would aprecciate an email copy of it if you can

Twizzle I am very familiar with that poem....it was found decades ago written by a woman in Liff Hospital in Dundee which was an institution at the time...must try and print it off but doubt if I can. It is so so meaningful. have lost my copy.

Gransnet campaign now please....sure the Daily Mail would support!

Lewis...please come back and help us to make our voices heard.

My mother died in an NHS hospital where she could not feed herself or do anything for herself; one of the nurses took a dislike to her and was unkind in many ways, including putting her in an isolated place where few nurses would observe her, and leaving her with food she couldn't eat. I tried to get some change but failed, and I still weep to think of her last days.
It is not just about money - though money is part of it - it is about a culture which values humanity and care at least as much as measurable 'effeciency' and targets, Real care takes a little more time - time to listen and respond, but it creates a humane culture, where health outcomes are likely to be better. Above all it provides a good answer to the questions ' What kind of people do we want to be? What is a worthwhile and good way to treat vulnerable people? What really matters? '
I earlier recalled Barbara Robb's report Sans Everything which went to the government in the 1960s - and said much what is being said here about the apalling treatment of older people in the NHS and care homes. I hope Andrew Lansley and others who take decisions will read it and we can at last have change.

This thread has lost it's momentum. This is a pity. New members, if you have experience of poor care in hospital, please read and contribute. Even more important, act - contact your MP and the sec. of state for health.
See the links. If you write the letter in Word and then paste it into these sites, it is very quick and easy. (and avoids internet problems)
Earlier posters, did you get round to writing to politicians? I have, for some reason been putting it off, twiddling around with letter etc. I have done it now and copied full text below. Sorry - it makes it a very long post !

http://www.info.doh.gov.uk/contactus.nsf
http://www.writetothem.com/

I am writing to you as an individual and as a member of a fast-growing social networking site called Gransnet. As a group we are very concerned about poor levels of care in some NHS wards and in particular the care received by the oldest members of the community. Some of us have experienced this personally and many of us have witnessed it when older relatives and friends have been hospitalised.

Specifically our concerns centre on poor levels of basic nursing care. This includes inadequate feeding and provision of fluids, failing to ensure that patients are clean and comfortable and ignoring requests for care, such as being taken to the toilet. Failures in this area inevitably lead to more prolonged hospital stays and greater dependency when discharged, both of which incur additional costs to the public purse. Communication with hospital staff is also often an issue for patients and relatives. There is the more general issue about dignity and compassion. We know that MPs cannot legislate for compassion but they are in a position to press for better basic care.

I would like to share with you some of my recent observations:

My mother-in-law was admitted to a general hospital, very ill with pancreatitis in November 2010. The care from the paramedics and admissions staff was excellent. She was then transferred to a surgical ward where the care was mediocre and communication with staff was a struggle.

It was not possible to speak to a doctor, other than the most junior variety. The ward round was at 8 a.m. and my mother-in-law said of the consultant: “I can’t tell whether he is talking to me or his students.” A request for him to telephone us did not result in a call.

The “named nurse”, who seemed very professional, went on leave for most of the time my mother-in-law was on the ward. No other named nurse was substituted. This seemed to make a mockery of the idea of a named nurse and left us having to communicate to a different nurse every day.

My mother-in-law was developing pressure sores as she had been ill for two weeks prior to admission. It took several days and a great deal of “chivvying” before an electric mattress was provided. I got the impression that if we had not kept on asking, nothing would have been done.

My mother-in-law was reluctant to drink and was not being encouraged to do so. This was partly because she was ill and couldn’t be bothered. It was also because she hated being put on a commode behind curtains next to the bed. There was no effort made to encourage drinking and the nurse we spoke to was very surprised that anyone would feel uncomfortable about using a commode in a ward full of strangers!

All in all this was a mediocre experience for a sick woman and her anxious family. There was very much a feeling that hospital staff did not understand that she was a woman with multiple previous health problems rather than a simple case of pancreatits.

At this point she was transferred to a small rehabilitation/geriatric unit. After a period of illness she was no longer able to walk. In this institution the nursing staff had no acutely ill patients to deal with. Just patients that needed nursing care.

When visiting her for the first time we found her shaking with distress and pain because her request to be taken to the toilet had been forgotten. She was unable to reach her call button – it had been left out of her reach. She was unable to ask another patient to call for her as those near her had all had strokes.

Two days later she was outraged to be wheeled down to the day room and encouraged to make Christmas decorations. She was still feeling very ill with acute vertigo (she could not look at a television or turn her head without feeling seasick). She was also in pain. There was nothing wrong with her intellect. Being asked to take part in an activity suitable for under-fives did not impress her in the least.

We did not raise any formal complaints. At the time we were much more focussed on how our family would cope with getting her out of an environment that was very distressing and how we could for her during her recovery. These concerns pale into insignificance compared to some of the horror stories told by some of my colleagues on Gransnet. This is example is, I suspect typical and representative of the patchy nature of nursing care received by sick people.

We are aware that the Quality Care Commission is currently reviewing dignity and nutrition issues and that their preliminary findings reflect our concerns. Current management and regulatory systems do not seem to be working. Maybe hospital managers need to be called to account more stringently in these areas. Schools, after all, when subject to Ofsted inspections, have to demonstrate the quality of their care as well as they quality of their educational provision.

I would be interested in hearing your thoughts about this area.

It would appear that the current government plans for “reforming” the health system are now, in their revised state, becoming confused and even more confusing for the public. I sincerely hope that these “reforms” will not distract the government from this vital issue.

I am copying my concerns to the secretary of state. I look forward to hearing from you.

Snowdrop, the eulogy you gave for your Mum was a wonderful tribute to her, in your own words, to share your own special memories.
In comparison to the poem, your words meant so much more, because they were your own.

@ Twizzle
Thank you for sharing your poem with us - it brought tears to my eyes as I lost my Mum less than a year ago. It's so true that people only see the person in front of them now, not how they were, and it makes me so cross. It comes to us all in the end, like it or not. At my mother's funeral, where most guests who attended only knew her in the last years of her life, the eulogy I gave tried to tell them how she was, paint a picture of the person I knew before dementia robbed us of her. Your poem makes a much better job of it than I did

@ Hilda W
At the care home my Mum was in (specialising in dementia care) each room had a 'memory board' outside eash resident's room. We were encouraged to put up photos and other mementoes of their achievements and younger lives. A great idea, and a good memory trigger for the residents. Sometimes though it was almost unbearably sad to look at the details on the boards

On care home has a jolly good idea,it has photos of the folks it looks after on their room door...as they were in their hay day.....so that carers and nurses are reminded that these folks often did amazing things in their lives that bare no relation to their outward appearances as they dwindle away.

My Aunt has recently moved into a wonderful Nursing Home. On the wall in the sitting room is a poem.
I thought it rather apt for this thread.

An Old Lady's Poem ..............Anonymous

What do you see, nurses, what do you see?
What are you thinking when you're looking at me?
A crabby old woman, not very wise,
Uncertain of habit, with faraway eyes?
Who dribbles her food and makes no reply
When you say in a loud voice "I do wish you'd try!"
Who seems not to notice the things that you do,
And forever is losing a stocking or shoe ....
Who, resisting or not, lets you do as you will,
With bathing and feeding, the long day to fill ....
Is that what you're thinking? Is that what you see?
Then open your eyes, nurse; you're not looking at me.

I'll tell you who I am as I sit here so still,
As I do at your bidding, as I eat at your will.
I'm a small child of ten ..... with a father and mother,
Brothers and sisters, who love one another.
A young girl of sixteen, with wings on her feet,
Dreaming that soon now a lover she'll meet.
A bride soon at twenty -- my heart gives a leap,
Remembering the vows that I promised to keep.
At twenty-five now, I have young of my own,
Who need me to guide and a secure happy home.
A woman of thirty, my young now grown fast,
Bound to each other with ties that should last.
At forty, my young sons have grown and are gone,
But my man's beside me to see I don't mourn.
At fifty, once more babies play round my knee,
Again we know children, my loved one and me.
Dark days are upon me, my husband is dead;
I look at the future, I shudder with dread,
For my young ones are all rearing young of their own,
And I think of the years, and the love that I've known.

I'm now an old woman ..... and nature is cruel;
'Tis jest to make old age look like a fool.
The body, it crumbles, grace and vigour depart,
There is now a stone where I once had a heart.
But inside this old carcass a young girl still dwells,
And now and again my battered heart swells.
I remember the joys, I remember the pain,
And I'm loving and living life over again.
I think of the years ..... all too few, gone too fast,
And accept the stark fact that nothing can last.

So open your eyes, nurses, open and see,
.....Not a crabby old woman; look closer .....see ME !!

iloveroses...I very much doubt that there is anyone on earth who will be brave enough to attempt PUT me where I choose not to go. Although, if I should become so frail that I have no fight left in me...being PUT in a day room may be the answer, as for me, it would without doubt, be the LAST STRAW!

supernana

Yes please; I have been saying this for years to anyone who will listen to me.
My son was devastated that I should think this way until we had a long talk during which I put forward my own arguments including the one which says, "If I knew I could go today, I would probably put it off until tomorrow. My daughters understand where I'm coming from, having been much more aware of my own mother's wish to just die quietly instead of having to live without her own wishes being accede to for the years she had to be in a care home - all she wanted was to be allowed to be alone in her own room instead of always being PUT into the day room.

Guess we all have defense mechanisms about the fact that we too will get old and die ... will take a look.

A pleasant tasting farewell potion [which I could have locked away until I choose my own "departure date"], to be taken after a family gathering, whilst tucked up comfortably in my own bed, in my own home, surrounded by those people I loved, would be a huge comfort to me and cost the NHS very little. Alternatively, the thought of spending my final days alone, afraid, in an uncaring geriatric ward fills me with HORROR and UTTER DISMAY

Some of the comments here need to be cross referenced with the thread in "Other subjects - the last taboo".

We have some posters who honestly do believe that we should have no say in our last days because there is always caring, compassionate ways to make our last days comfortable.

"there is absolutely no reason at all for any human being to treat another, especially someone frail, vulnerable and frightened with the callous disregard we appear to be witnessing in our hospitals..."

mamanC's words sum it up.

The reason people act that way is that they have stopped regarding others as people in their own right. It is basically that attitude that allows wars; torture; concentration camps and so on.

I appreciate nanasue's input as a nurse at the coal face as it were. We need to hear more from medical staff, even if it's just to reassure us that there are more caring nurses than it would appear many of us have come across. It is so important that they publicise the aspects of their workload which we are unaware of and which they themselves feel wastes their time. And I do recognise the point about today's "blame culture". However, if I as a teacher had behaved towards my pupils in the way many nurses treated my mother, society would not have sympathised with me if I had cited my heavy workload as a reason. My basic, fundamental reason for starting up this thread was because there is absolutely no reason at all for any human being to treat another, especially someone frail, vulnerable and frightened with the callous disregard we appear to be witnessing in our hospitals. If unqualified assistants are behaving in an appalling manner, the qualified staff should kick up a stink about it and get these people out. If paperwork is driving you all mad, get together and fight it.

My daughter was recently sent home with a piece of paper on which the nurse had ticked all the boxes, including one which stated she had discussed with my daughter the medication she was being sent home with. She had not. She had had no conversation with my daughter about anything. Had there been a problem, the nurse would have pointed to the paper to prove she had carried out the correct procedure, protecting her and her bosses' own backs instead of the patients.

Everyone working in public sector services will recognise the issue of endless documentation and, as professional people, nurses, doctors, teachers, police officers, should all call time loudly and aggressively on the managerial and bureaucratic mindset which stifles the individual and replaces common sense, kindness, compasssion, all the human qualities we need, with bits of paper to fool us into believing as nanasue says, that if it's written down, it must have been done.

There are callous people out there who palm off their elderly relatives on hospitals and Care Homes. There are bolshie, aggressive, ignorant patients abusing medical staff , so now we have notices warning the general public to treat the staff with respect. Well I'm not rude and aggressive, (but I am getting very bolshie!), and I didn't palm my mother off. Time and time again, I trusted the professionals to do their job. And they didn't. A consultant and a group of good nurses begged my brother to put in an official complaint. They agreed with everything he went to talk with them about, but they felt as trapped as we did. But the managers, the politicians jump when the customer, the voter starts to shout, so come on folks, keep shouting. And if you are a nurse and a good one we will support you if you want to rid your profession of the deadwood. Just shout about it so we can hear!

Human rights applies to everyone (even prisoners). However, exercising those rights depends upon your capacity to do so.

BurgundyGran...bless you for your input. Dignity, respect, understanding and compassion are essential basic needs all hospital patients deserve. Those whose only "crime" is to be aged and therefore considered "troublesome" are far too easily over-looked and intimidated. We caring Gransnetters can, if we wish, make our collective voice heard. We can do it...

I have written here about my father's treatment in hospital and even now after 12 years it still upsets me.

the word I think sums up what the elderly deserve is dignity.

Dignity in being treated as you would want to be treated. Many go into hospital with an illness or disease that can be treated but due to the lack of care they deteriorate. Food left out of reach as is the life force of water. Left in dirty nightware due to soiling because bells are not answered for commodes or bed pans. I am not elderly but I have waited for almost an hour in hospital for a bed pan and soiled myself. I was able to defend myself, not able to get out of bed unaided or walk to toilet, and wouldn't stand for any nonsence.

How much longer can we stand by and say nothing? Our family members and friends even us. We deserve dignity, respect and understanding.

JessM, thankyou for your comments, i think overall this forum is highlighting in a democratic way the complexities of modern healthcare delivery, with the importance of treating every single patient as an individual, and in the case of older people the importance of celebrating long, amazing lives. As you said we do use hospitals the most at the end of our lives, i just wanted to throw into the ring whether this is the most appropriate place for people to be, or whether it is a way of passing on the "problem" that community services seem to shy away from. My area of speciality is acute medicine, not surgery, and of course older people deserve the best surgical interventions we can give them, but medically a lot of acute and chronic illnesses could be managed better without the need for hospital admission. I too have an ageing mother who shies away from telling her GP how she really feels, she says "they aren`t interested in you when you are old" this is a sad reflection on society in general i`m afraid when we don`t value our most senior members
As for the paperwork, Oh dear! on my night shift last night i looked at this with a new interest, we have a booklet to fill in for each patient, with additional paperwork we download from the computer as it becomes available when "new" assements and initiatives are devised. Most (not all) is so that we can document in minute detail our responses to these areas of concern, the reason for this so that it can be examined when complaints arise, inquests held etc, the main thrust being, if its not written down then it hasn`t been done! over the last year or so the amount of documention has increased alarmingly, there will be no reduction in this as we become more and more reactive to the "blame" culture.
Anyway, the main point is...I`m proud to be a nurse! we should be giving help and support to nurses, its a difficult, physical career to be in,especially for us older ones! and i think most of us do a great job most of the time! We are extremely lucky to have our NHS, free all the time at point of need!! thankyou

Suggestions stage 2
Thanks for support of my suggestions. I will stay with you and be ready to help carry them out. If other grans have not seen my suggestions see my previous posting. If you can't find it let me know.

lewis PLEASE stay with us and help us to put your wise suggestions to work. I would rather be issued with a suicide pill [for me to take when I wish to depart] than go anywhere near a geriatric ward and face a spell in hell. I am not suicidal. In spite of several health problems, I am an exceedingly cheerful "elderly lady".

One of the things that struck me joggingirl, when MIL was in hospital is they don't ask "What is she like normally? What can she do for herself? How mobile is she normally etc?" They just seemed to make assumptions, either one way or the other. Also forget that the thing that got them into hospital maybe only one on a long list. And of course some folks, mentioning no names, just say that they are fine when they are anything but fine.

They are sometimes so busy trying to communicate with the patients that they don't talk to family members who are not ill and are not going to say "she's fine".

I am getting on with writing to my MP this weekend.