My daughter in law is inept and useless as a mum.

As long as you can ignore the chaos, do so, in the interests of long term peace !
Child-centred parenting does seem to be the trend over the last 30 years although the behaviour of small children who have never had anything other than instant gratification can be very tiresome ( especially on long flights !)
There's been a lot of criticism of poor Modesty and I can see how she wonders how her grandchild will develop.
My view is that a happy home needs a measure of order and routine and that a husband and siblings should not be squeezed out while the baby takes centre stage for more than the first few months. It takes a mother real effort to be organised with a new baby but it can be done.
My mother used to say that you brought up your children to take their place in the rest of the world : parenting should be a mixture of selflessness and good sense.
I suspect that the daughter-in-law is focussing so hard on being a full-on mother that she is letting the building blocks of family life slip.
She will either find a balance or she won't.
I recognise that Modesty would like to see her son having a little more care and attention - and I fully sympathise over non-working daughters-in-law who refuse point-blank to even iron a shirt - especially when it's just done to prove some feminist point.
Bite your tongue for now and cross fingers that your grandson will grow up to be a completely charming, thoughtful, undemanding young man !
Goodness, it's hard being a Gran !

I refer you to this post from HQ: CariGransnet (GNHQ) Wed 29-Jun-11 17:01:28

So....

Luna tells us she is incensed because we sympathise and 'side' (her term) with the daughter-in-law that Modesty was calling inept and useless.

She won't take 'sides' herself. Erm... Isn't getting incensed sort of taking sides? Just asking. Oh, hang on, she's incensed because we're being cliquey (according to her).

And she doesn't like cliques.

My fascinating [taking the piss emoticon] breakdown has revealed all that. Well, well!

Just had a quick squint at the OP to remind myself what the perceived problems were: breast feeding (terrible! T-T-P emoticon again) and the baby doesn't sleep in a cot on his own yet (shock, horror! T-T-P emoticon again). What exactly is inept and useless about that? I think, Luna, that this is why we 'sided' with DIL. We couldn't see from the OP that she was doing anything wrong, nor that it was the MIL's business to change her DIL's approach. Maybe she shouldn't babysit any more, but that's another issue.

Have a nice day, Luna!

dorsetpenn The consensus is that the thread was intended to achieve just that. At least twice, experienced gransnetters have tried to warn those coming fresh to it that it is a trap, but they have been so incensed by the original post that they have commented anyway.

Let us STOP ALL COMMENT NOW. If you feed a troll, it will come back for more.

I read Modesty's initial thread re 'useless daughter-in-law' but the last few pages seem to be about a row that has broken out between you all. What on earth is going on - insults and names bandied about like a bunch of silly school girls. I love Gransnet and several times have put in concerns and worries and got lots of positive feedback. However, this page seems to have sunk to downright nastiness. Please Stop and lets just enjoy this website in the way it was designed for us.

As I understand it, 'troll' isn't just a 'silly childish word', but a term that is used on forums such as these when someone seeks to disrupt or to lay a red herring. In the case of this thread, the OP was couched in such terms as to make such an extreme contrast between the DiL and the MiL as to make it almost impossible for a rapprochement to take place between them. As the MiL appeared to show her position in the most unflattering terms, the suspicion was that the thread had been started by someone who simply created a story to make mischief and create controversy among us. In fact, it succeeded in creating virtual unanimity.
Luna, since you have made your profile public, it is clear that you are not a troll. But someone else probably is.

Well that's very reassuring, my dear. Sorry that the grans get it wrong (as do the mums). Please don't feel you have to descend to our level as we are clearly distressing you and possibly leading to the breakdown of your exclamation mark key. Just write us off as a bunch of silly old bats if it makes you feel better.

Aided and abetted by Luna?
I beg your pardon?

I have never aided and abetted anyone !

How childish!

I am not in cahoots with any other member..however I am entitled to my opinion without censure by anyone, just as you all are!

And by the way, I do not care if " nobody was there".. when I supposedly shouted....DOH!

It is a website!

People log in and log out..comments are made and are still there next time anyone logs in....
Simple concept!

And no..I am not a troll or whatever other silly childish word you may bandy around!
Simply someone with a mind of my own..and who does NOT like cliques..of which this site sadly is guilty of as much as Mumsnet!!!

No experience, em, just a nasty suspicious mind.

Aha! You might be right Annobel. Clearly you are more experienced than I am when going into combat against the T****!

Are you sure she is 'in absentia'? I smell an alias.

Round 1 to Modesty. Round 2 to GN (nearly killed it off) Round 3 to Modesty (even in absentia but aided and abetted by Luna?)
Match over?

Thanks em. I tried that and it has no knowledge of forbesisnow2. That could be significant, perhaps.

Sorry about the offending term, ladies, it is to me a general term for stupid useless person, did not connect it with female parts - I am rather like a mother of a sulking little boy I once knew, who referred to him "sitting humping in the corner" and received a startled glance from someone else present. I don't think she knew any other connotations of humping - I did not at that time.

Nanban, it seems to be a slang term for what make us ladies and not gentlemen.

Now can we stop adding to the posts this troll has conned us into adding to her wind-up?

..they even make our spelling go to pieces...laidies....

Laidies; this is just what internet trolls set out to do..make everyone start argueing amongst themselves. Agree that this whole thread should be put away for good.

Slang names for female organs - what does 'twat' mean??? This forum, message board begins to sound horribly like mumsnet - I looked on there and didn't like it at all. Let's leave this poor woman alone.

Don't forget - someone please explain twat!

Butternut I have to agree. I have a profound dislike of the names or slang names of female organs being used as insults.

Elegran - You might like to look up the word 'twat' in the dictionary.

You may disagree, but I consider it a highly derogative term for a woman.

elegran I think if you type the name in the green 'search forums' box it brings up all the references - whether as a contributor or a mention within a post.

em How do you search the forum for more posts by a named member?

That last post is one of the most patronising I have read on GN!

First and foremost this baby is loved thats the most important thing. Let them do their own parenting. Dont babysit.... Breastfeeding is great, its natual and should be encouraged. Just relax and enjoy being a Granny.

There are some truly dreadful twats around, with too much time on their hands and nothing to do but be trolls and spoil things for others.
Best thing to do is ignore them. They wither away without the "oxygen of publicity" and the thrill of watching others get het up.

Would anyone really do that!!!! How pointless.