Cut out of their lives

Welcome nightowl you will be an asset to Gransnet. I do have a question if that is okay. I am an Australian and have read that children in the UK can be adopted without their parents permission. Is that true? D1 doesn't believe me, thinks I have got it wrong. I can see there may be some benefits for children that have no chance with a family that doesn't want them and the child would be left in foster care or a home all their lives, but find it hard to understand how a child could be adopted out from a family that very much wants them.

Yes Carol I have seen a tidal change in attitudes to grandparents, or at least the beginnings of one. Unfortunately when you get to our age you know that all such changes ebb and flow, with each new generation trying to reinvent the wheel, often using their 'brilliant new ideas' to make their mark and further their own career. It is also the case that our present Prime Minister is jumping on the adoption bandwagon and suggesting that he can 'sort out the debacle' - which is of course entirely the fault of incompetent Social Workers. Sorry to sound so cynical but I feel that children's needs are all too often lost in the political rhetoric. I have never believed that adoption is the universal panacea it is made out to be, particularly for older children who come with a history, parents (not all bad), siblings, and wider families. Children cannot be presented as blank slates who will make another family complete. Please do not think that I am against adoption; I have seen it transform lives, but it is certainly not the miracle cure it is made out to be.

I do agree with you about the irony of experiencing problems from the other side of the fence. I first became aware of this when my youngest son (now 22) experienced school phobia, and we became 'service users' rather than 'professionals'. It was a very humbling experience but certainly one that enhanced my professional understanding. We need to bear in mind that in almost every situation 'there but for the grace of God...'

I am so glad to be a part of Gransnet and hope to join in the wide variety of discussions. You seem to be such a welcoming and friendly crowd of people and I have been meaning to jump in for a while, just a bit scared!

Good timing nightowl! Have you seen a tidal change in the last year or so regarding contact with grandparents? I've noticed so much flexibility being brought into fostering and adoption, having a friend who does F assessments, a sister who fosters, and colleagues retired and still working, who are involved in safeguarding, care proceedings and fostering/adoptions. For a long time, we had the awful 'rottweiler' image of social workers, which had that tiny ring of truth in certain cases that made the headlines, but not at all deserved in most. Social workers were not recognised for the difficult job they have to do, especially with children and families, and it is great to be able to hear things from their perspective. I hope you'll keep chatting on here there's lots of issues that come up on an almost daily basis, and it's ironic that many of us who have been professionals in social work, probation, education, health etc. are experiencing the same problems we have had to work with over the years.

Hi chadsky and everyone. This is my first post on Gransnet though I have been lurking for a while. In fact it was your story chadsky that prompted me to pluck up the courage to jump in at last, may as well jump in at the deep end!

I am a Local Authority Social Worker with over 30 years experience in child protection and fostering and adoption. I am currently carrying out Form F assessments so do have some insight into how this works. I am so glad that things seem to be moving along for you and you are getting the Social Worker to reconsider. We are human I promise you; there are good ones and bad ones just as in all jobs, but if you do your research and refuse to give in to pressure the LA will have to consider your views in the interests of the child. I have certainly supported grandparents to apply for Residence Orders and in other cases have recommended 'open adoptions' where contact with grandparents has continued after adoption.

My advice would be to keep up the pressure on the child's Social Worker, and refuse to agree to any reduction in contact while the outcome is unknown. It is not in your granddaughter's interests to lose ANY contact with family members who are such a positive influence in her life at this time of uncertainty. Stay strong, do not be intimidated, but above all stay calm and assertive with the professionals.

If I can be of any help please do not hesitate to PM me any time. I am a fairly recent grandmother myself and it takes another grandparent to realise how much these little people mean to us and also how much we can bring to their lives. I would like to think I have always been an advocate for grandparents but there is nothing like personal experience to add a new level of understanding!

Anyway, I will stop now, sorry for the long post but I do hope I have been of some help. I am keeping my fingers crossed that things will continue to go in the right direction.

Chadsky I am so pleased to hear that you are at last getting through to the SW and that he would not oppose your application for a RO keep at it as Carol says, every small step is a milestone to you I'm sure but keep going and stay positive.

Keep plugging away Chadsky you are making progress on your side, but it also seems like the social worker is moving along. The climate is certainly shifting all the time. I visited my sister who fosters, the other day - the one I told you about who sees the child's grandmother for contact that will continue after adoption - things have changed there now. The grandmother has been advised to apply for guardianship, so in a couple of months, the child will live with her!! There is a concern about her age, but the wider family are supportive, and social services think it's in the best interests of the child. Just shows how things are moving along.

Keep going Chadsky - we're with you all the way!

I shall keep hoping for you, chadsky. xx

Another glimmer of hope, I had a meeting with the Social Worker - he wanted to talk about reducing contact now - I cried buckets - not on purpose - it was raw emotion - of hurt - I asked questions he could not answer - like why send us down the most difficult route - what made him do that - he did the viability assesments that were glowing but still opposes us - anyway to cut a long story short - as the end of that meeting - he said if I applied for a residence order he would not oppose me, It was the breakthough I needed - now I can at least hope. thanks for your support all I value it greatly

chadsky a multitude of warm, comforting (((hugs)))

Greenmossgiel - I am up early most days - sometimes 3 or 4am as i find sleep difficult - i just wake up thinking about her and cannot get back to sleep - turning things over and over in my mind - trying to find solutions - and also trying to think of ways to mend a damaged family - we all have dreams when we are young of what we want for our lives - mine was to have loads of kids and grandkids to love as i never received love from my adoptive mother. But it seems fate has conspired against me - I have a hate of disfunctional families - but I am now in the middle of one - thanks for your good wishes - i will keep you all posted.

Chadsky this is dreadful, and my heart goes out to you. I don't have any advice, just sending you my love and hopes for you. xxx

Chadsky that glimmer of hope can be harnessed, so keep on trying and, as others have said, keep evidence of all you have done. I've mentioned before that contact with grandparents is possible after adoption as long as it doesn't jeopardise the child's wellbeing or safety, so here's wishing you all the luck in the world

chadsky, warmest wishes to you. You've been up so early this morning - I wish I'd logged on then, so I could have answered your post. Keep on trying - there's definitely a glimmer of hope for you, or the solicitor wouldn't have suggested it. Look after yourself.

I do hope that the glimmer of hope becomes a great big star burst for you. Please keep notes of all you have done and are doing so that in the future your GC can see the efforts you made.

A glimmer of hope once more, my sons solicitor thinks we would get a residence order, and although that would mean the solicitor again, she has provided a number of one that is not so expensive. I know that technically she is not supposed to do that - but I think she feels we were done down on this as well - I will go and see them and see what they say - also the SW sent us a formal letter stating that the F assesment was not succesful - but wants to know what we feel about contact etc when they go for the placement order ( i will not reapeat my feelings when i saw the letter) - I have to keep trying - I wont get my hopes up though, just investigate and see
I had contact with her on Friday for 2 hours, I had not been able to go for a coulple fo weeks as I had not been well - she came into the contact centre saw me, and ran to me with her arms open, saying NANNY !!! it was so hard to fight back the tears.
thnaks for all your support and posts, and for those who do belive I would value your prayers

chadsky I have had to think about losing contact with my grandson over the last year - so far I have managed to revive dropped contact, but it hasn't stopped me going through that raw pain and heartache each time contact with him has been withdrawn. I have been close to him since 5 minutes after he was born, and as my first grandchild we have had such a close attachment. Adoption isn't an issue in this case, so I can't begin to imagine how you are dealing (or not) with this devastating time. Do keep trying, and do keep all those special mementoes, send notes for her to keep with her collection of special things for when she is older - they will mean so much to her. Do keep pressing your case, especially if the fostering process was not properly explained to you, and ask if you can attend the court to speak to the judge, or if you can send him/her a letter explaining your side of things.

If, as ga has explained, there is a query about what it would entail if you were to foster your granddaughter, think about what that might be and what commitments you could make to reduce the possibility of that having a negative impact on her. It is a sad fact that advancing age does get taken into account because the time until the child is 18 has to be as secure as possible.

Having worked as a probation officer where the criminal behaviour of one person has impinged on the appropriateness of a child being allowed on the scene, I would say think about any incorrect assumptions that may have been made, in case you can correct them. I'm not making assumptions myself, but I know there have been instances of 2 and 2 making 5 because no-one has checked a potential problem out, or reassurances about perceived problems not being relevant have not been forthcoming. You have to think the unthinkable, just in case there is something assumed that does not apply for you. Keep talking on here because there is so much warmth and support, especially when some of us have had similar harrowing experiences

Grannyactivist - yes i appreciate that there is probably more to it than it seems on the surface - but that does not make the hurt go away, I know nothing can - my problem is how do I deal with the fact that i will never see her lovely smile - never go to her first nativity play, teach her to make cakes, and how to knit and generally play painting on the table with her - all the things I long to do and would have done - I will never be able to take her to the zoo or park - its all gone - and it is that i do not know how to cope with the pain !!!

NANBAN yes i do beat myself up - we all do don't we - on stonger days i have put a couple of things in a book for her, a letter and a some photos of happier times, when we were a family, photos of her daddy when he was younger, and of me when i was little - but i end up in tears once more. just as i am now - I LOVE HER SO MUCH

I will be thinking of you Maniac and Chadsky when I get to see my beloved grandson for 10 minutes this afternoon. I have been asking for weeks if he can come to my house or the cinema for a couple of hours, as we had a few weeks of this happening in the late autumn until ex-DIL sabotaged things and prevented my son (and therefore me and the rest of the family) from seeing his child since before Christmas. She is still blocking access, but with sheer doggedness and persistence I have been able to get her agreement for me to pick him up from school and drop him off at his other grandmother's house, where he stays until his mother comes home. It's a 20 mile round trip, but worth every moment, and keeps the lines of communication open, at least.

He is nearly 12 now, and gradually voicing his wishes, although it is easier for a child to keep the peace with his difficult mother than to incur her wrath by asking for his daddy.

My family keep lots of evidence of our attempts to see my grandson, for when he is older and more able to judge for himself what has been happening. How one person can decide to prevent a child having the love and support of half of his family defeats me. The effect on his daddy has been devastating, but we keep fighting, using every strategy we can think of.

All your stories reduce me to tears and make me realise how fortunate I am to see my grandchildren as often as I wish. I wish you luck Chadsky. I never knew my grandparents and really feel I missed out on a very special relationship. How can a stranger be considered more suitable to raise a child than a grandparent who already loves and cares for them unless they are physically unable to care for them?. My job involves visiting new parents and to be honest some of them should not be allowed to keep their children but they are able to get pregnant so they can have as many as they wish. On the other hand there are many people who are desperate to be parents and can offer children loving secure homes but have to jump through hoops to adopt. Maniac -your Japanese neighbour will have been raised to respect older people and value their experience perhaps a lesson we should learn in the UK. Good luck to all of you fighting to see your grandchildren is there a campaign we can support to give grandparents more rights?

Chadsky Of course you are heartbroken. What you are having to endure is wicked. I hope with all my heart that you will get justice. Please, NEVER give up hope. Hope will give you the strength to make changes happen. (hug)

Chadsky I feel so sad for you, don't give up. I can only send love and ((hugs)) and good wishes.xx

Chadsky - don't be put off trying absolutely anything and everything - not only will it make you feel and know that you are doing your best but - despite the doubters - it may just work. If you don't try you'll always regret it. I wish I had the magic formula for easing your pain but just keep going, one foot in front of the other, one day at a time. All my thoughts and wishes are with you.

chadsky.I've just read your messages.My heart goes out to you.The situation is monstrous and incredible!
80 last year I have for 12 years given time,love and support my grandson - babysitting,outings,sleepovers etc.I am now denied contact, largely due to his mother and stepfather.
I concur with all the suggestions of other members to you.
I wrote to and had interview with my M.P. in Dec. He promised '100% support' to our cause and to write to the appropriate depts.
Since joining Gransnet in Aug I have had great love and support including contact with grandparents at www.bristolgrandparentssupportgroup.co.uk .
I have also acquired 2 surrogate grandchildren!! My Anglo/Japanese neighbours appreciate my babysitting.Even at 80 I cope with nappies and feeding. I was almost at the delivery of the baby in June and the 2yr old spontaneously calls me 'Grandma'.
I'm sure that you are well able to care for and give your grand-daughter a good life.I hope that this will happen
Love and hugs

My good friend writes F assessment reports for fostering and adoption and she says that the process can be prolonged if late information comes in. Adoptions don't happen easily and if the best interests of the child are to look again at what has been almost decided, then that must happen - quickly if possible, because children should have some predictabilty and be able to settle with their permanent carers. If you weren't properly informed about the fostering process being used to assess your suitability for caring for your granddaughter, shout loud and long at anyone who will listen, including your MP and the Director/CEO of Social Services. Writing to the PM will only result in the letter being delegated back to the MP.

NANBAN I know your right I should not beat myself up, but we do, don't we, i cannot help it - Granny achtivisit- yes in some ways you are right - but the SS told us they wanted us to foster her and sent us down an "F" assesment route, (and as i had never had any dealings with the SS before in my life - I thought they knew what they were doing) which was never going to be right - I did not want to foster children - we wanted to look after my darling GD - pure love seems to have no place in their world. Every birthday will be hard, as she was born two days before my birthday, and christmas will be awful. and the thing is i dont know if I can cope with the pain, its killing me, I am sorry if I sound whingy and self pitying - I want to scream at them - do you really know what you are doing to me - do you even care !!

NANBAN I have not written to my MP - but to the PM I decided to go to the organ grinder and not the monkey - we will see sorry fi I am going on - i need to get this out -