In my day things were done in order.

I was brought up to believe that sex before marriage was wrong too, but some of my more liberal teachers also accepted that a certain amount of it was inevitable. The question is, harri, do you want to be effective or not? Saying no is only effective for some people some of the time. Knowing about and using contraceptives is effective for most people most of the time, as falling birth rates have shown.

I no longer think sex before marriage is wrong, if I ever did. As it happens, I did not indulge, but only because I was ambitious in other respects and getting pregnant would have cramped my style.

Wise words,Baggy - yes, effectiveness is the key.

jangly how rude, I would never assume anything about your sex life, do not try to second guess mine. Hang on while I go and ask DH why he has stayed with me for 48 years. what ? I can't write that

Why does it matter? Ok - I had a baby at 16, before I married, then married the father and had the most awful life with him. I married him because I suppose I was trying to mollify my parents, who had more or less disowned me. I consider myself lucky because I was strong-willed and made myself put up with the beatings etc because I had nowhere else to go - my parents wouldn't have had me back. I was told, "You've made your bed, you'll have to lie on it." When I met my partner - who I call DH, though we didn't marry - he 'rescued' us all. Attitudes were different in those days, I know. Circumstances could also be different too. What led me in to the 'union' that I had with my baby's father was that I felt inadequate, and unattractive. I suppose I was trying to prove to myself that I wasn't either of those things. I still don't regret any of it - not even the beatings, because they made me stronger (what doesn't kill you DOES make you stronger, by the way), and it made me stick up for myself as the years went on. Each to their own.

Oh, go on harrigran. Do a bit of assuming.

I'll tell you if you're right.

Oh jangly you are awful, but I like you

I just saw Dick Emery (Mandy) staggering off just then on her high heels!

What green describes as her married life strikes me as part of the things that were "done in order" — rejected by parents, forced to marry someone unsuitable, beaten up for existing.....

Great.

NOT!

phew!

I really thought you were cross harrigran.

Oh Greenmossgiel, how frightening for a 16 year old- a baby yourself. I was frightened and I was twenty, albeit a very immature one. Did your parents come round in the end? As you say it made you stronger, and how lovely that you met someone with whom you were happy. Stuff happens in life, and yes a lot of it is our fault, but we are all human, all make mistakes, the trick is to learn by them and become a stronger and-hopefully- wiser person.

'There but for the grace of God' go me and a lot of others from those days.

I've carefully read all these thoughtful texts and my heart goes out to those who have suffered. The consolation is that you did find happiness later. For some of us, the story was reversed. My background was probably more like harigran's than most of the others, in that my parents were very strict and I'd rather be out of favour with a boyfriend than risk their displeasure. Also I was very determined to finish my education. Ironically, in my late 20's and happily married I discovered that I had a condition that made me infertile. If only I'd known I might have played a far more active part in the so-called promiscuous society of the 60's!! After 2 adoptions, it seemed that I finally hit puberty at 36 when all of a sudden I had regular periods for the first time in my life. At 37 I gave birth to my son. A university friend had a big scare but it turned out that she wasn't pregnant. Strangely enough, they too had fertility problems and adopted 2 boys. Many years later this story reached a slightly bizarre but happy ending..............

em - that's such a lovely 'bizarre but happy ending'! If your body hadn't worked like it did your two earlier children wouldn't have had such a settled upbringing and caring mother. We don't always have the chance to control the way things go for us, but hopefully we do learn from the paths that we take. I have tried to be open-minded with my own family, always remembering the rawness of fear, hate and disgust that I experienced in my teens. My parents did 'come round' in the end, GoldenGran, but by that time it was a bit too late. There always remained an awkwardness.

I was adopted as a baby in 1957 by a fairly strict but loving couple who'd had one daughter and then two stillbirths. In recent times I've met two of my half siblings and had some limited contact with my birth mother. I would never judge my birth mother for relinquishing me, but it was interesting that when I wrote to her and expressed my thanks for giving me the opportunity for the life I've had with my adoptive family her response was "that's just what we did back then".

I do have very strong and probably unpopular feelings about the willingness of government and agencies to now break the promises that were made back then to preserve the anonymity of all parties only to be tossed aside in later years. The binding legal contract made by my birth mother and my adoptive parents and ratified by the courts was subsequently broken without referral to either party, and I think that's just wrong.

It does seem wrong, popparob but, speaking cynically (so unlike me! ), when did governments ever keep contracts?

Greenmossgiel - there is actually a bit more to the bizarre ending! All of the adopted children mentioned are happy adults now (as is the son I regard as a minor miracle while his sisters see him as a fluke!) We rather lost touch with the friends who also adopted - exchanged Christmas cards -but that was about it. Many years later, post-divorce, my ex-husband happened to meet the uni friend who was by now, also divorced. Bizarre ending.........they have now been married for 3 years and we all share the kids and GCs! A bit complicated, but civilised and friendly.

It's a funny old life! Isn't that a great way for it all to end up!

Perhaps my mother should be answering this. I was born in 1958, she was un-married, my father was a married man, although (I believe) not a local chap. (That's alright then!)

I will not go into the whole thing here, but suffice to say it did not go down well, she was hidden while pregnant, arrangements made for me to be adopted etc. But I wasn't.

So, in short Granzilla you are wrong, things were not done "in order" in "your day" They may have been just tidied up so that all appeared to be as required!

My mum wasn't married.

Wartime. (I think the girls felt sorry for the soldiers on their way to the front. Well, you would really.)

There have been quite a few unmarried mothers in my family and quite a few "shotgun weddings" too, going back several generations. It's nothing new.

phoenix, things were not done in order - of course they weren't. They never have been, and indeed, why should they? Life itself isn't ruled by 'how things should/must be done'. Like your mother I was hidden (at home) throughout my pregnancy, the summer of 1966. I wasn't allowed to go out, unless it was down the garden, and then only 'as far as the cabbages', because if I went any further down the garden the neighbours may see me. Now, I feel sorry for my mother. She didn't have a good start, not being given the information that she should have had when she was growing up. She hid herself away - with me - never going across the doorstep for months. So, I suppose if you think about it, because her grandmother didn't do things 'in order' in 'her day' (1890), and then her mother didn't do things in order in her day (1924), my life didn't follow a comfortable and organised path, where exams were sat at the right time, and where babies came along at the 'right' time. It honestly doesn't matter now, though.

Actually, I think its best for people to get married before they have children.

And stay together for as long as the children are at home. (Well, within limits. I don't include the revolving door grownup kids)

Reading some of the stories here has been very moving. Today I stopped to ask a neighbour something, and then, maybe because of this thread, saw her with different eyes.
I have known her all my life, she is about 10 years older than OP.
Age 17 she had a baby out of wedlock. although I know in the wider community, babies were often put up for adoption, in our little patch, they were mostly kept and looked after.
At 19 she married, and her husband brought her son up as his own (although there was no subterfuge) and they had 2 children of their own.
They were foster parents for about 30 years until they became too old. They are pillars of the church, in the nicest way, going out of their way to support young families, and have never tried to hide their history.
I realised how much I took this kindly woman for granted, how reliable & helpful she is. When one of the neighbours had a heart attack and died whilst cleaning his car, it was she who organised everyone, helped the widow cope with her husband's body being out in the street etc. She checked on my parents when they became ill.
I realised how little "the right order" mattered.

Phoenix, if you'd read on and seen the whole text,you would have seen that It was tongue in cheek and was followed up by a 'Did I have rose tinted glasses'.

I think that what granzilla said in her original post was probably the norm in those days. Of course, it didn't work out like that for everyone but it was probably what the majority strived for.

Perhps it describes an ideal world.

Nothing wrong with ideal worlds, or striving for them.