Travellers

Actually, it's not difficult. There should be more legal sites and the police should do their job fairly and well to safeguard all concerned.

I wish.

Before long, the so-called, hard-done-by "travellers" will sell their stories to the press - become the new 'celebs' - get a handsome reward for yacking on about the mess that they have created...and the rest of us get on with abiding by the rules and paying our dues. I'm LIVID!

I guess if you are born into the gipsy/traveller community, probably going back generations, it must be hard to change your way of life. Even if you don't want to actually travel anymore. Councils don't like them travelling because they end up illegally on roadside verges. That's probably why they allow the few legal sites that they do.

It's a difficult one.

I saw that too, there has been so much manipulation of and by the press. I don't think travellers really want to travel any more, nor do they wwant to pay taxes etc; like the rest of us have to.

Had a wry smile at the heart-rending pix of a 'courageous' woman holding a crucifix high against the wicked police that adorns the front pages this morning. Even the Daily Torygraph described her as a traveller. Er no. She is a renta-anarchist with a good understanding of PR who arrives at any any establishment cause. But never let the facts stand in the way of a good story.....

Why does anybody have to provide a site for these people to live on ? Has any Gran on here been given a plot of land to build their house on ? No I thought not. Land has to be bought with money earned from working and the relevant taxes paid.
We have jumped through hoops and paid out vast amounts of money to make sure our extension conformed to every regulation known to the building trade because we could have been made to pull it down if it did not. Angry does not cover it.

They could always travel - or would that be a silly idea?

That's the point nannym ...no one has a problem with the legal site there ...it's the "illegal" aspect that is the issue. After all ...this council has already given them the largest "travellers" site in the country.

Surely the point is that the Council (and Councils elsewhere) have not provided places for travellers as they are supposed to. So, the councils have also broken the law it seems to me.
Where are all these people going to go?
The law is not black and white - its changes over time in any case. It is not fixed in stone. Sometimes needs and "rights" overlap and this has to be taken into consideration. Freedom and equality do not always sit well together........

Surely the point is that the travellers built the site illegally? If I were to build an extension to my house without planning permission I would probably have to pull it down. Why should the travellers ( and I agree that there doesn't seem to have been much travelling done) be any different?

Very little Pennysue, just like the rest of us

But the state can decide what I can do on the land that I own and what I can build on it and if I do not follow the rules they can and will enforce it in the courts. So what personal freedom do I have?

Yes (or should it be NO?) Jacey. The point is that if it became compulsory for pensioners to downsize, then we would be breaking the law if we decided to fight to stay in our own homes.

I also feel the heartbreak of those who, having fallen on hard times, have had to give up the homes they have built themselves or which have been the family home for generations. Housing benefit is only payable up to a certain limit dependant on what 'the powers that be' decide is a big enough house for your CURRENT circumstances e.g. one bedroom for a single person or couple. This may be fair as far as the taxpayer is concerned but is so cruel for the individual affected.

To lose the home you have created is as traumatic as loosing the job that has been your life's work. People feel 'diminshed' or as if they have lost part of themselves and yet we are expected to behave ourselves and not make a fuss or cause a disturbance. What price personal freedom when 'the state' can decide what we or in this case the travellers can do on THE LAND THAT THEY OWN and the houses they built there.

First they came for the Travellers.......

Understanding what you saying granny23 and agreeing on both count's as in elderly downsizing and traveller's losing their home's,there is one big difference I think the traveller's have been proved to have done this site illigally and do not pay Council tax or Income tax or any other tax for that matter,whilst we who own or rent our propertie's pay our way in society and count the cost if we don't do so.I still feel though that there should be legal site's for these people so they can continue the lifestyle they have chosen,but being 10yrs at one site is not what I would call a travelling lifestyle.

Yes, I agree Granny23.

Don't think I read your post carefully enough first time round. It is self explanatory. Sorry.

mmm! ...but I don't think that many of us have 'broken' the law with our homes???

Sorry JJ, I thought it was self explanatory - just saying that the travellers reactions to someone threatening to force them out of their homes is remarkably similar to our reactions when faced with a similar threat.

No criticism intended of your 'downsizing' thread - indeed I agree with every word on there wholeheartedly.

If you could just elucidate a little....

Some of those are my comments Granny23. I agree I would defend my home if necessary.

And? [shrug]

No one has the right to tell where you should live and how many rooms you should have.
"An Englishman's home is his castle"
Perhaps they would like us to shoot ourselves and rid the world of our troublesome presence.
Who has the right to tell us where we should live.
l have raised my family here. I do not want to leave it.
We are staying put till they carry us out.
I hate being dismissed as a kind of general nuisance.

No, these are not quotes from the 'about to be evicted' travellers but rather from our own thread about expecting the elderly to downsize.

Perhaps I am comparing apples with pears but I could not help but notice the similarities between the reactions of 'them' and 'us' when our homes are threatened.

I know, they did say they had information of weapons, some of them liquid, on the farm, but it still makes me uneasy.

But I suppose GoldenGran the use of taser guns has to be weighed against the safety of the police ...but I do know what you mean.

I agree Jacey about the playing up to the media. And I do think it is the right to move them on, but am very uncomfortable about the use of Taser guns.

Yes Pennysue and many on the illegal site have left or moved onto the legal site ...which I gather is the largest one in England.

Those left have invited in outsiders to protest in any way they feel is right ...militant behaviour ...by anyone is unacceptable.

Actually feel the 'media' should be moved away ...people are playing to the cameras!!

True, Glamma.