Donating Winter fuel allowance to the young unemployed!

If I donate all or some of my winter fuel allowance it will be to Age UK. It is badly thought-out proposals like this (and the one about giving up family homes) that might create an inter-generational gulf which need never exist.

"how dare!! they even ask" !!!!!!!!!! do they want the loaf of bread I have as well ??? cheeky...*********

This is a somewhat insensitive way to try to raise money for Prince's Trust methinks. Must have seemed a good idea at the time. Them and all their friends feel they don't need the money... There are plenty of old people and young families living in fuel poverty who would be a more obvious cause.
I think they need a better idea for raising money - however there is the point that nobody thinks teenagers are a deserving cause.... Lots of toddlers playgrounds near me, but nothing much for older kids to do...
But whatever, folks, nobody is saying you SHOULD give away your winter fuel payment i- just if you feel guilty getting it then you could give it to a charity of your choice.

As I'm already wearing extra socks and a rug over my legs(never thought I'd see the day ) having just had my gas bill, I'm bu**ered if I'm giving my WF allowance to anyone.

I seem to remember last year there were some letters in our newspaper from pensioners who felt they didn't need the winter fuel allowance and who wanted to donate it to others who might need it more. I don't think unemployed youngsters would be very high on the list of candidates though. They are more inclined to attract resentment than sympathy though it must be awful to have such poor prospects at such a young age. There were so many jobs available when I was young. I wouldn't mind donating, say, to buy blankets for people sleeping rough. Of course if I needed the money myself I'd feel entitled to keep it.

Trouble with putting a rug over my knees, Nanachrissy, is it sends me straight to sleep. I think it sort of tells my mind that I am tucked up in bed!

Hi All. I don't get the winter fuel allowance (probably never will) but I have to say I agree with the principal of what the charity are suggesting. there are many wealthy pensioners (some bragging on national radio only yesterday) who look at the winter fuel allowance as a treat. They were talking about buying wine with it etc. which surely is against what it stands for.

My son and his wife have 3 small children and one of those god awful key meters for their fuel. Last winter if it hadn't been for other members of our family they would have quite literally froze to death as they simply dont have enough money to make ends meet. there are probably plenty like them. So why should a hugely wealthy pensioner get a fuel allowance to treat themselves to some nice champagne or to put in the bank when YOUNG people and children are freezing to death ?

Sorry probably not a popular view.

...... and just to rub salt into the wounds, I don't buy the "I have worked all my life I deserve it" argument!

gillybob, I agree totally with what you say. But it must be choice.

I do feel for the young un-employed. It is a dreadful situation for a young person to be in. There was a seventeen year-old on the radio earlier this week. He has just been made redundant from an engineering job that he was thoroughly enjoying. He said the worst of it was that he would miss his workmates. Not sure, to be honest that a pensioner giving him their WF money would have helped though.

I can't really see why WFA is a separate benefit and not just part of the pension. Those of us who are UK pensioners and live in the EU have the stupid situation that if you are over state pension age and have claimed even one WFA when you move here you keep the allowance and if you move before you reach state pension age then you can never claim it. Not very logical, I think. In France there is sometimes a WFA, but only if the price of oil (it isn't given for gas or electricity!) is high and only to people who are below the income tax threshold (which is higher than in the UK). It seems to me that you should either give it to all pensioners or means test it via tax allowances. (BTW, I am not complaining about not getting it, we chose to move here, cold winters and all).

Hi Jingle. I agree that donating your WFA will not help the young unemployed, to me that is an entirely different argument.

But I honestly think it is so grossly unfair that a well off pensioner (or indeed someone who is still working but of a certain age, and I know quite a few) should get the WFA when there are so many young families literally freezing all winter and can't afford to keep warm.

Nobody forces young people to have children they can not afford to raise, it is their choice. Different if circumstances change after the arrival of family of course.

Not sure what point you are trying to make harrigan?

Are you suggesting that my son, his wife and their three children deserve to freeze if they cannot afford the heating bills while some extremely well off pensioners spend the WFA on a bottle of champagne for christmas?

............or am i just being over sensitive?

Gillybob - I understand what it means to see your family struggle to make ends meet. I have a lovely Son who has been desperately seeking employment since being made redundant - he has applied for literally hundreds of jobs and doesn't often get a response to say they have bothered to read his impressive CV. When they do it is to say that he's over qualified or lacking relevant experience.

It's tough out there for people on benefits, basic state pensions and low wages. It isn't helped by living in such a materialistic society and the void between the 'haves' and 'have nots' is getting wider all the time. Surely, old or young we should have the right to adequate warmth, clothing and food ( perhaps I should add employment!)

silverfoxygran Thanks for your support. My son and daughter in law both work although neither have very well paid jobs. they live in a small ex council house and couldn't cut back a thing ( I know as I help them with their finances ) and they are permanently broke. i really feel for them sometimes when many in their situation would not bother working at all.

The point I was trying to make was that to be cold (no matter what age) is awful in 2011 and especially for little children who have no means of helping themsleves. I think that any pensioner below a certain level of income deserves the help with heating but try telling a cold 3 year old that mummy has no money to feed the gas meter ! and then justify spending the WFA on a trip out or some nice wine !

gillybob, they reckon it's too expensive to means test the WF allowance. If people keep going on about well-off pensioners not needing it, the government will scrap it including for the really needy .

Do you know, while I have every sympathy with hard up young families, I can remember when I was a child. We lived in a gerry-built old house which had been partially pulled down, and condemned as Unfit for Human Habitation. Open fire in kitchen grate. Parrafin heaters upstairs. "Front room" only used at Xmas because couldn't afford more coal.

I'm not saying that that situation should occur these days. Would be totally wrong. But, the thing is, I don't remember suffering at all. I've no doubt my mum and my gran did, but I didn't. So, hopefully, perhaps you don't need to worry too much about your little grandchildren.

Same here Jingle. We had not much in the way of comforts,One fire,no carpets and the outside loo was miles down the garden with a little tilly lamp and newspaper squares! (Sounds like a Monty Python sketch!) Ice on the windows in the morning and no bathroom. I was happy and it did me no harm. Thing is these days no-one should be living in poverty, but sadly some are.

jingle As you say yourself that situation should not occur today.

yes I too lived in a condemned flat complete with outside loo. We were bathed in front of a roaring fire and were NEVER cold as my dad was a miner and he had a coal allowance. I remember him giving bucket loads of coal away to people in the street who were not as fortunate as we were.

....and I fail to see how its too expensive to means test anything. All other benefits are means tested so what's the difference? Oh yes I know. Any government who DARED to means test the WFA (or the xmas treat as it seems to be for some) will endure the wrath of the pensioners and are guaranteed to lose at the next election. Thats the REAL reason.

Yes nanachrissy some very much are living in poverty and its so wrong, in this country and in his day and age.

So if they are not going to means test it and are going to give it to everyone, why not include it in the pension and lose the administrative costs?

It is paid along with the pension.

I think the point isgillybob that the "well off" pensioners, can decide to donate it themselves to whom they want,not being told to do it as though they can't make up their own minds. I donated mine last year so my daughter, who is struggling to bring up her two children on her own, could pay her electricity bill. It is the constant instructions by others on how to run our lives that i object to, not giving to charity.

Gillybob I know exactly what you mean as my daughter and her children struggle to pay heating bills in the winter and are always skint because of low pay. I don't buy the argument that because we lived without heating and had a bath once a week in front of the fire fifty odd years ago, it is alright for children to do it now. You might as well say it's alright to take kids off school at the age of 12 and send them up chimneys because we used to do it and nobody minded then! Also, it's to do with the unfairness of some being very wealthy and being able to buy everything they want and others starving/freezing. It's called relative poverty.

Why not give WFA to pensioners claiming Pension Credit or working age people on various other benefits. While we don't need it, I feel we've earned it and I don't like being told to give it away. If we didn't get WFA we'd be fine, but my husband has contributed enough over his working life in contributions, tax and service to the community for us to feel it is ours to do with as we like if the Government can't organise a system to distribute it more fairly.

gillybob Means testing is an expensive and inefficient system. Furthermore, there are lots of pensioners who are entitled to means tested benefits but do not claim them. Maybe they are too proud, maybe they don't realise that they are entitled or maybe the forms are so complicated (they often are huge and difficult to follow) that they have just given up.

Extra benefits for pensioners – winter fuel allowance, free tv licenses for the over 75s, free prescriptions, etc. – are discounted from the point of view of income tax.

I agree no-one should suffer from cold, whether a pensioner or a young family.

However, the suggestion that WFA should be linked to Pension Credits would be unfair. I am unable to claim any benefits as I have savings over £16,000. I can see the logic of this as there has to be a cut off point somewhere.

My savings are invested to give me an income which together with my pension is still lower than a friend who receives many benefits because she has told the authorities she has no savings (I know this to be untrue).

If the WFA was linked to Pension Credits I would not receive it meaning I would have to use my savings, reducing my income until eventually my savings would be below the £16,000 threshold and I would then be able to claim all the benefits, thus costing the country much more.

I have put forward the same argument over Council Tax benefit. I can control, to a certain extent, the amount I spend on food etc. but heating costs and Council Tax are out of my control. I have to spend as much as it costs to heat my home and if I don't pay the Council Tax I can be arrested! Perhaps the answer is to raise the savings threshold.