Hostilities between DS's

I think that's a very wise observation Carol

Keep your chin up Yummy

yummy I went through this sort of treatment from my ex-DIL who made it her business to create a distance between me and my son. For twelve years I said nothing, offered her support and sat there passively while she criticised him for never being at home, being under her feet, getting drunk when they had a party, being a miserable so-and-so for staying sober when they had a party, not giving her enough money to spend on redecorating four months after they redecorated, buying too many things for her and running up a large credit card bill and so on....nothing ever pleased her. My son would stay out of the way when I visited, claiming he had jobs to do.

The whole family would tread on eggshells around her, and expressed our sorrow about the distancing of my son, their elder brother. He attempted to leave her a couple of times but went back because of their son and said he would wait until his son was 18. but then carried on being supportive to her and distant with us. A year ago, he got to the stage where he couldn't take any more and left her. Her behaviour amounted to domestic abuse over many years. We immediately grew closer - in fact he's staying with me at the moment till he finds another suitable house - he had been living 500 yards away so he could be near his son, but her continual attempts to cause trouble put paid to that.

What I'm leading up to is that your son has a baseline from which he has grown and developed his own adult relationships, and he, like you, will feel this distorted way of relating to the people he cares about, but probably be searching for a way to manage it without one side or the other creating merry hell. You are the easier one to manage - she'll be a nightmare. He won't feel any different about you, but just be hoping things will die down. He won't want a repeat of the incident that resulted in this situation, so needs to keep her away from your other son. Is there some way you could meet up with him somewhere neutral for lunch or a coffee, and just show him how much you appreciate having his company, and want to be able to see your grandchild, too? Please keep posting so we know how you're getting on. Good luck

What was I thinking of on the 10th of January? Obviously I was in a state of confusion as I can now clearly see I've posted on the wrong thread.

Feel for you, yummy. It's a horrid situation for you to be in. xx

Thank you Greatnan...I appreciate your comments. I think that is what we need...patience, but it is so hard isn't it?

Yummygran, I feel for you, and I know what you are going through. It sounds as if there is a lot of jealousy on your DIL's part and your son doesn't want to upset her by being close to you.
I can only hope that both our problems will be solved by time and patience - my very best wishes to you.

Just thought I would add an update to the situation.

Whilst my eldest son is and is fine with me, my younger son (with the difficult partner) is hardly speaking to me, only answering texts when required, and doesn't ring me (he used to call every day). This is tearing me apart. I have only seen him once with my little granddaugther. That seemed under sufference! I kept off the subject of the awful situation hoping he would relax a little but it was like trying to make conversation with a stranger.

It is their father's birthday tomorrow, he has invited them both for a meal and they have both declined, using work as an excuse. We assume it's because they don't want to meet one another.

I will be down at the weekend with my other half and rang my younger son to say we would pop over to visit, but he told me he didn't know what they were doing at the weekend 'will probably be out shopping'. So I guess that means don't bother coming!

I used to have such a close, loving relationship with him, he was such a fun person to be with, but now is so distant and serious. I can't help thinking his partner has a lot to do with this, she has always had a problem with me. A couple of years ago I went away with my elder son and his partner, for a few days break...their invitation, and it seemed I was to blame for the other two not being invited! When my son defended me apparently she told him to leave!!! He had to move out for a couple of days.

There have been so many instances over the last couple of years, where I have got 'into trouble' because I have visited/helped out/babysat for my elder son. My DIL seems to forget/ignore that I have their little daughter whenever I can, to stay over. Even taking the odd day off work to have her when they were stuck for childcare!!

What can I do?

Nanban

That is the best advice I have ever read on Gransnet.

See them separately, love them separately, don't make them love each other - that can't work - and let time and development heal them all. You can't force a relationship, their relationship but you can give them some space to stop fighting with you as the linchpin in the middle.

I don't mean this for the little children - you just have to be in view all the time until they grow out of their anger at being displaced as No1. Have you tried explaining that when the baby grows, he/she may very well be bigger than he/she and will feel the need for revenge?

Picture this: you've been married for five years to the love of your life, never had a cross word and think your marriage is going along swimmingly. Then one day your spouse comes home and tells you that because he's so happy with you, he's going to bring home a new wife to love as well. How are you going to feel about that wife? Now imagine that you're only five years old and a new sibling comes on the scene.
JaneMarie what's happened is understandable and it seems to me that your approach has been a wise one. One of my children took SEVEN YEARS to truly appreciate the 'new baby' and during that time many a sly dig was administered I'm sure - now my children are all loving, forgiving and caring of one another.

I think that's a good suggestion and that way both feel they are have the upper hand. I will suggest it when next I speak. Where is Henry Kissenger when you need him!

Sounds like a disingenuous politician-type apology is needed - I'm sorry if I caused any offence (allows him to think he didn't offend her) - could he be persuaded to issue that and both sides can save face?

I can sleep a little easier now! Kids (no matter how old they are) never seem to realise how things like this affect other people around them, especially their parents!

sounds like progress. well done.

Just thought I'd let you know the latest.

I stayed put and didn't visit, but spoke to both sons over the weekend. Both have calmed down now and though they are not yet ready to meet and apologise (they both think the other is to blame) at least they are not going to kill one another. The eldest still feels the same about his SIL and recognises the problem isn't really with his brother. He reckons he will apologise to him rather than the SIL. So that needs to be worked on because he has to apologise to her before the rift can be resolved.

Whilst my youngest hasn't fully forgiven me for not launching into a joint attack of his brother, at least he has listened to my views and understands how difficult it is for their father and I, and he doesn't now expect me to take sides (though I don't think his partner holds that view, but that's another story and debate!!).

I'm so glad I didn't have any more children lol

Thank you all for your words of wisdom, it really helps knowing that people understand and sometimes have similar experiences. You really are never alone on Gransnet!

Oh, I duuno, glamma, sometimes they do look after their good old mum!

Good idea yummy sometimes I think it was better when they where all little and at least then you could put them to bed until they calmed down again,defininatly better having babies than grown up DCs.best wishes

I wish my family could speak their mind and clear the air without holding grudges or sulking. It sounds a good way of dealing with issues and very sensible.

I have decided I am staying put, rather than go down to my 'weekend retreat'. I have always been glad to see them all, but at the moment I don't think I could hold my tongue, so I am staying away. I might suggest that their father and I get together and try organise a 'meeting' with just the boys, without their partners, and attempt to sort this out, I don't think either of them will make the first move. My eldest has a new baby due at the end of the month and I would hope that this is sorted before then, otherwise if my youngest snubs his brother at a time like that it might never be resolved.

Yummygran,..They all sound a bit oversensitive to me and they have all overreacted.
If your DS accuses you of siding with his brother just telling him he is being ridiculous ( unless you are siding with him !)
Sounds like everyone knows what your DiL is like so they should not be surprised at her actions.

In our family we all tend to say things to each other that I guess many families would get upset about but we just move on after having a row and I can't think of one instance when anyone has ever stopped talking to anyone else. My DiL can be very difficult and she is a jealous awkward type but we just accept her the way she is and don't take a lot of notice apart from just telling her, if w ehave to, that she is out of order. She sulks,... but she knows my DS would never be drawn into a fall out with his sister or his parents !

Yummygran Your son attempting to frogmarch your DIL out the house was over the top. I would say she was sticking up for her child and even if your son was trying to be helpful he shouldn't criticize her child. The child is only two, why say anything at all, it's not helpful. I believe your sons were both out of order and I would be asking the son who did the frogmarching to apologize to his sister in law. She may seem to have strong opinions but maybe she feels she has to stick up for herself. I had a lot of criticism from my own family when D1 was very small as she was the eldest of all of the cousins and I guess some of my siblings thought they knew it all, never having had a child of their own at that stage. It still annoys me to this day that they spoilt for me what should have been happy family events. I do hope that you sort it...best wishes!!!

JaneMarie My GS who had doubts at the end of his mother's pregnancy just loves his baby sister now she is here. We always referred to her as 'his baby' and at first he wouldn't touch her and barely looked at her, one time he mentioned she was 'too small.' He was more interested in the the Spiderman House the baby was 'getting for him' when she was born. He gradually started to take an interest, all the time the baby was referred to as 'his baby.' He is fine with her now (she is 8 weeks old tomorrow) but his mother found him in her cot last week, he was going to get her out. Babies are tiny and helpless and have to be watched all the time and I am sure that my GS will be too rough at times. Second children do seem to be made of more tougher stuff, maybe because they have to be!!!!

Thank you all for your answers, I have had a chat with him this evening, we have had a lovely time after our little chat playing with a teapot and generally grandson and grandma time as we usually have, I asked him gently why he feels the need to hurt them and what he does, he says he nipped and smacked them, and I said that it upsets not only the babies but also himself because I know he doesn't really want to hurt them, he said he doesn't, I reassured him that we all love him and that we love the babies too but we have loved him for much longer, we had cuddles and story time and am now hoping that he knows he can tell me what's on his mind, I don't expect the nipping to stop immediately but we will make sure that we don't leave babies alone with him, I feel reassured that this is not unusual behaviour in a child who has been the only one for a good length of time. Thank you all again xxxx

I do not believe it is a good idea to ignore the baby and give the 5 year old more attention. This will only reinforce his belief that he is more deserving than the baby. I used to watch my eldest GD like a hawk in case she sat on the baby or put cushions on top of her. Now that GD#2 can fight back the sly nips etc seem to have stopped.

My brother chased me round the garden with a little axe. He was stopped just before he got the chance to hit me with it. He was 4 I was 5.

I poured condensed milk on my sisters head once. I must have been about 6 and her 4.

You've just revived a memory for me Charlotta. Apparently, when I was three, I managed to tip my new baby sister out of her pram - fortunately she wasn't hurt. Sorry.....!!