Another sob story.

I am relieved for your grandson when ...how sad the other 4 aren't so lucky poor kids

My son has one child aged 12 nellie. The other five are not his. They spent 12 years in mine and my son's company, learning respectful ways to relate to others, and have continually challenged their mother's behaviour. The eldest son occasionally works for my son now, when his own work dries up (he learned the business by earning pocket money with my son, then having a weekend job whilst at college), and he is in a good relationship. That particular cycle of abuse appears to be broken, although the eldest daughter has followed her mother's footsteps.

Sins of the father springs to mind when how heartbreaking to think that your sons children may be brought up to think this is normal behaviour,the balance of power has changed for the mother now that the husband is frail.
It is hard to think that the mums attitude is condoning her children's behaviour,and as she sees it as normal behaviour....I am thinking this through and how I hope haven't the wrong end of the stickxxxx

nellie My ex-DIL's mother has remained friendly with me and my son, and he recently helped her to move house. She dismisses her daughter's behaviour - 'you know what she's like. She isn't going to change now.' She has two sons and another daughter. The sons are also domestic abusers, like their father. The mother has never taken a stand about this behaviour, even now when she is a relatively free agent with a frail husband who has not been violent since their family all left home.

So sorry to hear your story - Hang in there and be there for your son as I'm sure he needs your support. Now they have 2 children I'm sure they'll need help and she does sound very insecure. How is her relationship with her own parents perhaps you could speak to them?

Wow, littlenellie that is quite a scary thought.

Just a thought DILs are another woman's daughter,how awful it would be if you where to find your daughter to be the abuser,horrible thought..

As you say, Petallus - what do any of us know about the full stories behind these tragedies.

I understand what you are saying when. I was thinking more of situations where dils are playing up and sons don't seem to be very active in helping to get the problem sorted out.

Or something like that.

Anyway what do I know about it? I think you have to be in a situation yourself before you can fully understand it and I've only got daughters, no sons.

Yes, you're right about many men wanting a quiet life Petallus. I have often wondered whether this is something they use for many different situations, though. Only today my BIL told me he has used this as a strategy for dealing with potential confrontation as it gave him gains to rack up for when he really did want his own way.

I don't agree that women tend to see their sons as helpless victims. Mine was naive and believed lies, despite being streetsmart in other respects, but he chose to enter the relationship. He could have chosen to leave years earlier, but had a realistic view of what would happen if he left, and hesitated for his child. He became tough as a result, and had to make decisions to deal with his ex that many people would have avoided, as it became even more difficult to regain access to his son when he left. If he had been helpless, he would not have seen it through and taken on her and her legal representative, resulting in the judge admonishing ex-DIL for her continuing abusive behaviour towards my son, and trying to alienate their son from his father.

Domestic abuse is not only perpetrated by men, and daughters who decide they are going to leave are not regarded as helpless, so why should sons be? It is all pervasive and the emotional games and insults can strip a person of their confidence. I cannot accept that either men or women who are the injured party in a domestic abuse situation should be seen as being equally responsible. Neither helplessness nor equal responsibility come into such situations. Domestic abusers don't deal in reason and equality.

What Treeman says makes a lot of sense to me.

As for being helpless to do anything about a situation because of the children, well lots of people (men in particular) do leave their families when they find they really want to, having met someone else or whatever.

I think as Treeman suggests, many mothers prefer to see their sons as helpless victims rather than equally responsible for a sad situation.

And in my experience, many men will agree to anything for a quiet life.

I'm speaking generally, not about anybody in particular.

Nanban in her case, she tells me her motivation has always been revenge. If she perceives some subtle rejection of her lifestyle or values, she goes hell for leather to ensure the wrongdoer regrets whatever they may, or may not, have done. Woe betide anyone who crosses her path!

whenim64 - what motivates people to cause so much grief. So truly sad, and the children grow up learning all the bad things about relationships instead of the happy, funny, nice, ordinary things. Rotten for you all but how lovely that you are there for them.

get on with your life...make a lot of time for you you deserve it.......

Coudn't agree more Nanban. People enter relationships hoping for a happy future and tend to overlook the warning signs, by which time babies have been born and the cracks appear. My son endured 12 years of abusive behaviour until he could stand no more. His ex has had three more victims who have left the scene in the 18 months since my son ended the marriage, and another baby has been born, this time into a hostile, disputed claim and an absent father.

Treeman: Of course what you say is absolutely right but when do we ever reason things out before going headlong into relationships. And, of course, once involved, personalities begin to exert themselves and, once babies arrive, it's too late and babies have to take precedence over everything. And if facilitating behaviour protects the baby from strife and arguments then that's what sons/daughters do, perhaps always hoping for a future change.

I came across this thread whilst looking for different points of view that I could relate to my own DIL / Mil relationship.
The main thing that has struck me is that no one seems to place any responsibility on the son's behaviour. In particular Danjo you make very little acknowledgement regarding the fact that your son has chosen to have a second child with a woman you don't like.  Why is this?
Surely he is as much to blame for the situation you are now in by either facilitating your Dil's behaviour or not directly challenging you about the perceived problem and allowing it to be resolved?
Why do we as women appear to blame other women, when our sons are just as responsible?

Danjo so happy for you things will work out in the end for you I'm sure it won't be too long before you see your boys again.

That's great news, Danjo! And I like your last wee bit.....'just have to wait for when Richard gets in touch again - and I know he will.' That says it all!

Knee's ok and sciatica all but gone [happened when the weather warmed up] but thumb has shot it now after a bit of pre decorating rubbing down. Spend weeks/months saying I'll see a Dr and then, when I do problem seems to resolve itself immediately..a case of if you take the medicine for 7 days you'll get better but if you don't take it you'll get better in a week [I think]...

Crimson - Emu's knees deffo look dodgy!

I know it's been a couple of weeks, but I finally met Joe and spent a lovely few hours with Richard, Dan and Joe. It was very relaxed, got some great pix of me and the boys, and left on good terms. (She who must be obeyed had gone out for a few hours).

So - I'll now wait for when Richard gets in touch again - and I know he will.

Hope you're all OK. x

Strangely enough it's bright blue so is therefore of the Rod Hull emu variety. Bought it from Holland and Barrett when the other knee went wonky. It also smells quite strong which is why I think my boss opened the windows at work this morning [he didn't say that was the reason but he's never opened them before . Oh, it's called Blue Ease Cream [containing emu oil]. At least we now know why emu's are so grumpy.

Well done danjo 9th Aug not far off.
emu oil Crimson ? I am intrigued, and faintly horrified. Met an emu recently. It had a knowing look in its eye.

Concerns me that it's quite a complicated operation [also risk of blood clots?] and, from what I've seen rather painful for a while afterwards. If I had a choice of 'new bits' I think I'd opt for a new hip which is far more straightforward. However, sometimes feel a whole new body is the only answer!