government policy on paying for healthcare

It would appear to me that it is only the people who have worked hard to buy their homes that will be paying for their healthcare. that is. at least their relatives will after they have gone,,,,,So how do the people who live in rented properies pay theirs....
they pay NONE....
i had to pay for my husband in a nursing home before he died...while the very nice lady who sat at the same tea table as my husband ...told me she paid none because she came from a rented house...
how can anyone say that that is fair,,,,tis like everything else that this rubbish government is doing,,,
I'm alright Jack is their favourite motto.

But, euny, presumably if you had not been able to pay for your husband's care, you would not have had to? People who live in rented accommodation still pay taxes if they have enough income. We live in a society, so society pays for the care of individuals. Individuals contribute what they can. It's not completely fair, but it's fairer than very poor people getting no health care because they can't afford it.

At least, that's what I understood was the purpose of the NHS.

If you can't pay for nursing home care you get put where the LA decides! That's what I keep telling myself.
I also wouldn't mind paying a nominal sum for prescriptions. I don't believe that anything should be absolutely free.
I've worked most of my life with an approx 5 year break to have my children. I've paid my dues and I would like to benefit from my efforts. I've always been careful with money and I would begrudge not being able to give my children a goodly share of my savings to help them for their future. The thought that I could have had led a wild life and let my hair down because the State would look after me never crossed my mind - but now I'm beginning to wonder........

There is a ( perfectly legal) solution .

Sell your home. Gift the monies to your children, who will buy another home with said monies. You will live in that home for a peppercorn rent for as long as you wish/need. When you need to go into care, there will be no home to claim monies on.
If, you also live for 7 years after you have gifted there will be no inheritance tax to pay.

You cannot gift the home you live in because that would make you a beneficiary
of something you gifted.
Hope that makes sense goldengirl

I am facing the prospect of persuading my mother of maybe selling her home to pay for care. Her main objection is not that she will loose all she and my father worked for or the unfairness of it all but that once the house is sold and she's tucked up in her care home there's no going back. She can't change her mind. The house will be gone, her furniture will be gone, her way of life will be gone. It's too final.
If the government bring in a cap and the facility to pay back care costs borrowed against the value of her house she would be able to stay where she feels secure - and we'll all be happier.

NfkDumpling

Good luck with your problem. You obviously are very caring.

I really like your last comment and the fact you accept responsibility for your mothers care. It is a hard choice to make whether or not care is paid by your mother or the state and I just love your attitude that 'Mum comes first'.

I only wish I could be so gracious if and when this may happen to me.

Sincere wishes all works out O.K. for you all.

Thanks for reminding me about that johanna. It's certainly a better option.
My mother was 'lucky' in that she went into hospital, got sent home too soon and had to go back and sadly gave up. However it did mean that she didn't have to go through the trauma of giving up her home which was one of her biggest worries. Giving up your home is giving up so much - your freedom, your choices....It's like going back to being under someone's 'parental' care but in someone else's house.

Bags you refer to living in a society for which we all pay so why is the NHS free for all when paid for by all but not other forms of care? I think that all of us who object to losing everything we have worked and saved for all our lives are happy to pay our share but not to pay more than those who have partied all their lives instead of being as frugal as us.

The younger generation I used to recruit did no join the generous pension scheme because they said the state would care for them in their old age. I think they are going to be a much greater burden on the state than we will be. Most of us expected to be self sufficient all our lives and made provision so to do but many people now don't think like that, they think they are entitled to all the benefits and that the state will take care of them. I believe that the welfare state was originally intended to take care of those few who fell on hard times but now is expected to cover everything for everyone.

I agree, Alison. There will be a shift towards renting rather than buying (even if young people could afford to buy!), because why pay a mortgage all your working life, then have to sell the house to pay for your care? What Bags says is true of an ideal society where each individual does contribute what he or she can, but there seem to be so many who expect the state to support them and don't feel any obligation to contribute anything.

NFKDumpling It is already possible to ask the local authority to lend the cost of care against the value of your mother's house. LAs are not madly enthusiastic about the idea but persistence usually pays off. The new system that the Government wants to bring in is for LAs still to lend the cost of care against the value of the house – but to charge interest throughout the period of the loan. Currently, it is only charged from something like 60 days after the death of the person who has taken out the loan.

Doesn't most of Europe prefer to rent? I know at one time the UK was unusual in preferring to purchase a property. And of course they have insurance for health care; but those living abroad would know whether I've got this right or not. Perhaps it's our mindset to 'own' that makes it more difficult for us to accept these policies.

The idea of an LA loan to cover care costs, then to be paid out of the proceeds from the house sale when you die is not new - it just had a different name. It has long been the case that the LA can put a charge on your property whilst your care is provided and then they recoup the cost when you die.

Yes, but they didn't charge interest.

According to Radio 4 this week it is a common misconception that the LA will provide a loan. Apparently it is only a few which currently do.

I don't know about the rest of Europe but DS2 lives in NL and he has just bought his second house with Dil. Her mum and sister have also bought their own houses and I think the aunts and uncles also own their own. Of course they could be in the minority but it did feel as if it was what they expected to do and there were a lot of houses for sale when we were looking with them.

not quite sure if it makes sense johanna - do you mean you can sell your home, give away the money to your kids, and then buy a house they rent to you
Then if you survive 7 yrs, no inheritance tax due and the money cannot be called upon for care costs either. I have heard of people doing this kind of thing to avoid tax but not care costs.

But you can't just give them the house you live in and avoid inheritance tax and care costs?

Or are inheritance tax and care costs two completely separate issues?

Yes, Jess they are separate issues. If you are deemed to have given away your assets to avoid care fees they can still charge you.

However, if you give away your assets and live for another 7 years there is no IHT to pay.

Just for the record, the NHS is not free at the point of delivery – prescription charges, dental charges, opticians' charges for the majority of people. In some cases, when treatment should be free, it's impossible to obtain. Has anyone else ever tried to find an NHS orthodontist for a ten-year-old child? Until quite recently, hospitals could demand the state pension was handed over to them if a pensioner was an in-patient in hospital for more than six (?) weeks, though, to be fair, lots of them ignored this.

Just one point absent I understand that more people get free prescriptions than actually pay! We have an excellent NHS dentist here and I think the charges are very cheap compared to what we had to pay for private dental treatment in Surrey.

NHS dental charges may be very cheap compared to private treatment – but they are not free – giving the lie to the government's constant mantra about the NHS free at the point of delivery.

jess
Sorry to have confused you. I threw in the IHT as a bonus.

No, you cannot sign over your home to whoever and keep residing there.
There is some law which states that you would then be a beneficiary of something you have gifted, which is not allowed.

Alisonma says:" If you are deemed to have given away your assets they can still charge you. "Which would only be the case if you were to leave it till you need to go into care. The LA does not look kindly upon people who sell their property
very shortly before they need care.
So, you would have to do it long before. Like 5 years maybe.?
I do not know exactly how many years, but I will find out.

It's seven years, johanna. You have to think well ahead to avoid being charged or penalised, and be sure not to die within that period, of course!

ana
I thought the 7 years is the IHT one?

Yes, johanna, you are right.

Giving away property or savings to force the authorities to pay for someone's long-term care is known in the jargon as 'deprivation of assets'. You should be aware that there is no limit on how far back authorities can go when considering if this is the case.

Read more: www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/experts/article-1645600/Giving-away-house-to-escape-care-costs.html#ixzz20s5Ik6Ao

People who rent houses have nothing to show for it.
People who buy houses have made an investment and have a house to leave to their children or to sell or do with whatever they choose.

I completed paying for my house before I was 50. I have no rent or mortgage to pay for the rest of my life and I have a house to leave my children.
People who rent have to pay rent forever and nothing to leave their children

I don't resent people getting free care in their old age because they rented and have no money. I don't mind having to pay towards my care if I have to and have the means.
I would prefer we ALL got free care in old age.
I just don't understand the resentment that people feel.

I don't feel any resentment and I'm only too pleased that my mother (96) sold her house some time ago and can pay for her care now she needs it. BUT it does seem a little unreasonable to me that my mother is paying for her care and paying taxes which go towards the cost of the entirely free service received by pensioners in Scotland.