to feel despair at the gay marriage vote

It's an odd thing that it's only women who have an organ that has no other function than to provide pleasure... at least those who have not been exposed to the evil of circumcision do...

Same reasons as hetrosexuals?

I guess, petallus the idea was that you din it into women's heads that adultery is a sin. And everyone else's head - married women off limits. Adulteresses deserve to be stoned in public, that kind of thing. And scare married women off the idea.
Honour cultures take this to an extreme degree - the honour of the family is inextricably linked to the honour of the whole family. Any sexual transgressions by either married or unmarried women bring shame on the whole family. Within our lifetimes there was an element of this in UK society.
More I think about it, the more I'm beginning to wonder why gay people aspire to marriage

I wonder why marriage reassures men of paternity.

Gives them legal rights over any children born within the marriage maybe.

Sorry folks. I for one used christians as a term when perhaps I should have been saying christians-who-are-vociferously-opposed-to -gay-marriage
I think we are all fully aware that opinion is very mixed.
Another way of looking at marriage is that it is an institution designed to protect women and children who are less powerful in society than men.
Yet another way of looking at marriage is that it is a patriarchal institution designed to control the sexuality of women and reassure men of paternity.
It's rather a lot of things isnt it. Depending on your point of view and the historical moment in which you are looking at it.

There are 2 C of S ministers locally, one of whom has mentioned tolerance many times in recent sermons, and gives a strong impression that he will be happy to conduct a same sex marriage when they are legal here (yesterday's vote, correct me if I'm wrong, please, was just for E & W). The other one has said in so many words that he will be delighted to have a chance to perform one. Both are Christians, as am I, and I have no problem with it either. There is not enough love in this world, and so I think we should make the most of it where it exists. Anyone who feels that this is wrong is equally entitled to her/his own opinion. Nobody is going to be forced into doing something they are uncomfortable with.

Yes. Of course. For us, sex is most often just for pleasure. But in the way of the natural world, the pleasure thing is to attract us to doing it. So that we further the species.

It's good to enjoy it. Whichever way it takes your fancy.

Snap, Flickety - I typed before I saw your post.

Isn't one of the things that sex is for is enjoyment? And giving pleasure to your partner? And helping you to bond? Surely we have moved beyond the purely reproductive imperative? It stopped being my reason for having sex after my second child was born!

Why is it always assumed that christians are opposed to same sex marriage. I am a catholic. I have been advocating same sex marriage for at least the last 30 years, probably longer.

Marriage is not about a union between a man and a woman. It is about sex. A marriage can be annulled both religiously and legally on grounds of non-consummation. The purpose of marrage is to nurture and protect the physical relationship between consenting adults and this has always applied whether or not children were born from the relationship. In the past because of the then limited understanding of the wide spectrum of sexual attraction and commitment this has always been held to apply to heterosexual relationships only but our wider understanding and realisation that homosexuality is part of the very wide spectrum of sexual development has changed this and I think the laws on marrage should change to meet this understanding.

Well, I've said it all in that post. In the second paragraph.

Normal insofar as to what sex is for.

I am not sure what you mean by 'normalized', jingle. Sexuality is not just a question of A or B - there is a continuum from A to Z. Being attracted to the same sex is normal for very many people - it does not mean that there is something wrong with them.

I wonder if the anti' s feel that it is another (huge) step towards trying to normalize something that cannot be truly normalised?

My own view of homosexuality is that it is simply something where, somewhere along the line, something has gone wrong. I believe that nature gives us nothing for our enjoyment only. Food, sleep, sex, are all there for a reason. And with sex, it's to further the species. But that doesn't make it sinful. It should not be vilified.

I am for gay marriage. To deny it would be to attach blame where there is none to be attached. But I can see it must be very hard for some people to accept.

Goose Enjoy your weddings and I hope your family will be very happy. Sounds as though you will have fun. Just the way it should be.

Greatnan JessM glammanana Thank you for your posts to me. This (to me) has been a very important and interesting thread and has moved me to come out of 'lurking' to express my own views, which of course will vary to other peoples views on here and as Bags wisely says 'tolerance of (is?) something that should be tolerated'. My family are overwhelmed with joy at this time - and yes, I shall have to go and buy three new hats - all in rainbow hues

Tolerance of something that should be tolerated.

I'm not in favour of tolerating things that damage society, like the ideas that cause people to take part in suicide bombings, for instance.

Because it shows tolerance.

It's an important step for society, not just for gay people.

BAnanas Good post. I agree with your comments. I don't have a problem with gay marriages. I can't see the difference between that and a civil partnerships. The world didn't end when the first couple made a civil partnership and it won't end that the first couple get married.

I don't understand how it diminishes marriage between a man and a woman.

As I have said before, I do think the government has spent too much time on this instead of focussing on really important matters like crime, education and the NHS.

But saying that, I'm sure this is an important step for the gay community and I wish them well.

That is lovely news goose does that mean you can treat yourself to three new hats

That is really lovely goose. Hope you have some fantastic family celebrations.

Goose - congratulations to all your family and I hope they have a lovely wedding day.

I agree, Barrow, but I wonder if it would be possible to educate some of the people who are so bitterly opposed and show them the historical facts about marriage?
I am listening to The Wright Stuff and they have just debated this subject. I was quite annoyed when somebody suggested that Cameron had made a mistake because there are so many pensioner voters and they would be opposed to gay marriage. I don't know where people get their views of old people, but most of the ones I know are extremely liberal in their views.
One caller rang in to say most people in Britain were opposed to the change, and when Wright pointed out that over half had shown themselves to be in favour, the caller just dismissed the survey because it did not support what he believed.
It was suggested that Cameron was aping Blair's tactic with the hunting ban - show yourself to be very forward looking, but do it far enough ahead of a general election to allow the opposition to die down.
I have to say I admire the courage of the 136 Tory MPs who voted against the bill, even though I think they were wrong.

BAnanas Thank you for your last post. For me this vote means that at last my daughter and her partner, my brother and his partner and my nephew and his partner can all finally follow their dreams and become united in the eyes of the law and church - up until today they have felt outcasts, and as they are all kind, loving and giving people, they deserve to commit to the people they love and not spend their lives feeling - different