cut out of thier lives 2

Smileless2012 I think I should tell you why it may of offended me. My name on here could well of been smileless1979 I have a naughty daughter. I will never see my DGC again. I used to have unpleasant thoughts about the situation, I ended up not liking me. After a long time of pain I realised that I was doing more damage to me than she was, so I had to stop. I really do understand your pain and hope you can find a solution to your problems

That is kind of you to take the trouble. I know I have said things on here that I wish I had not.

I apologise Newist for offending you. It was clearly a bad attempt at humour.

I find it offensive that you should ask god to give you the wisdom to bury the bodies of those you had to kill

Hey there Yogagirl I always look forward to reading your posts. My hubby has just called me a 'gransnet groupie' what a fab compliment. I'm loving it,loving it, loving it.

It's ironic isn't it, when they got married in Florida there were only 5 people present and one of those was the registrar; we were two of the others and, oh yes bridezilla and the gloom were the other 2 . In those days we were better than her own parents; she wished I was her mum blah, blah, blah.

Hubby saw his mum yesterday and she remarked that there had been a few deaths in the village where we live. He replied that there was nearly one more as he had driven past our awful d.i.l. and had been tempted to run her down. Her response was "poor ....". Wrong response - my hubby told her what an evil and toxic b.... she is and she had destroyed his family; he told her he never wanted to hear his mother refer to her as "poor ...." again.

Families eh! can't live with all the members and can't kill the ones you can't live with .

A nice bed time prayer for you Yogagirl

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those I had to kill because they made me REALLY angry.

I hope this doesn't offend any one. My hubby and I are both Christians and are always thankful that God gave us a sense of humour.

Have a good night's sleep .

Hello Kiora Thank you so much for getting back on here and letting us know a bit more, although you still didn't say how it actually got resolved?
I did look into 'Stockholm syndrome' and yes this is def my D, even though her husband is the same age. How nice that you got a new baby GC during this horrid time, it must have been a God send. That's what I'm waiting for from my ND. She has gone away for the w/e, I really hate it when she is away as it makes me feel so alone (I don't let her know this). She txt me and said "you could foster + adopt a little girl" I replied " no Sarah, I need some flesh + blood GC) she replied "You will prob get some soon. Have you got a house made of sweets?" me; "no, but I can make one if it helps, promise not to put them in the oven ;-)) Lol
Yes Smileless my s.i.l is a 'narcissistic paranoid schizophrenic' (due to his drug taking of the last 11yrs!), I've studied this for the last year, and as you say; he pulls in allies and turns the situation around to make him the victim, even though it has all come from him!! That's terrible that your d.i.l's parents didn't go to their wedding, reading your story above, I think your d.i.l and my s.i.l have the same affliction, he does the same thing, turning stories around and is a pathological liar, which goes hand in hand with narcissism.
I, like you Smileless, am finding it easier in some ways (its less raw) but then worst in others, as its now been such a long time since I've seen them and no one in the family will talk about it, it's just become the norm and taboo subject! I have gone from really missing my D (she's my baby) and then feeling I hate her for what's she has done to me and her sister and to Laila and Jack, I am Laila's only real Grndparent, the others are 'step', so I'm sure Laila wont be too pleased, when she's older and learns that her real, devoted nannie and auntie where cut out of her life, and for no reason other than her step-dad's (+his mother's) spiteful jealousy!
Yes, I think love can be killed off, with so much cruelty!
You and me both Smileless with the long post
and chocs tonight, for us all

Thanks Kiorafor your in put. I hadn't really considered the relevance of 'Stockholm Syndrome'. I came across is several years ago when studying for my degree and have just been refreshing my memory. It certainly has some relevance to our nightmare.

Our d.i.l. is def. a sociopath; surrounding herself with allies who eventually become her enemies. Always the 'victim' she is 2 years older than my S and to begin with he seemed to be able to stand up to her, and listened to the common sense advice of his parents, which was only given when asked for, and given in a diplomatic way. We were aware that she could behave in this way but we did genuinely love her. What we didn't realise was that she made allies of us when she fell out with her own parents (they didn't attend the wedding) and would eventually make us her enemies.

Things began to deteriorate during her pregnancy. Endless time off work because she was 'so ill'; this got him down together with her increased laziness in the home. As soon as our gs was born in a matter of weeks, he began to change. Although still loving at that time, he was clearly finding it more and more difficult to assert himself with her, and the more this went on the more he gave in. He began 'phoning me on his way home from work or when walking the dog rather than from home, especially if he wanted some advice regarding our gs. As time went on he became increasingly protective of her and increasingly distant from us.

He has told the most outrageous and in some circs. rather disturbing lies about me. We knew her parents, his i.l's. prior to their rel. I was partic. close to his m.i.l. and from her was made aware of how shall I put it, questionable episodes in the marriage and therefore my d.i.l.'s childhood. The lies from my S are actually a transference of events from my d.i.l.'s life.

My S was also once loving and affectionate; my moon, my stars and my sun. Maybe he does still love us but is unable even to think it. I took a step back over a year ago; haven't even spoken to him since the end of Sep. 2012, even though he only lives a 2 min. walk down the road. I am still trying to hold on tight and wait it out but in some ways this is getting harder to do.

I have been in a much better place emotionally the last couple of months; feeling stronger, less tired and weepy. In the early days I could sleep for 80 percent of the time and cry a river every day. The reason that holding on and waiting it out is becoming more diff. is that it worries me that as I continue to improve, my desire to have anything to do with my S dwindles. I constantly think about my gs and seeing him again one day, but rarely have such thoughts about my S.

Is my love for him dying? or is it that so much pain makes it harder for [me] to even think it?

Sorry Yogagirl for almost making you cry. I dread having to get a new mobile bec. I'm a technophobe and it takes me ages to learn how to use them. Got a new one in the summer, practically idiot proof. Absolutely basic so I couldn't have a photo of my gs on it even if I wanted too. Hope you have a better nights sleep tonight for you to make up for yesterday.

for you Kiora you said you hoped to be able to help at least one of us and you've helped me. Can't believe how long this post is; guess I had rather a lot to get off of my chest today. Sorry ladies .

Morning all I have just read the question yogagirl asked and I'm sorry I didn't see it sooner. I remember how desperately we hold onto the merest glimmer of hope in these situations. So I'm sorry. I don't come on this forum/ tread much because it raises all those painful memories but I do want to support you if I can. I think my withdrawal from the situation was around 6 months. Every one of these situations is different and caused by different events with different personalities involved. But if nothing else works I think stepping back is the only solution. It will at least allow the other party time to reflect. For you ladies it will be hard, try to immerse yourself in something. I won't pretend you'll enjoy the task. your heart will still be heavy but it may make time pass more quickly and give you time to adjust just in case things don't resolve. It was easier for me because during the last phase of this situation one of my sons had his first child and I'm ashamed to say all that pent up love I had to give was lavished on his baby and his birth made the pain easier to bare. The other thing was we didn't have all this tech so I was not constantly bombarded with images of my daughters and G.C lives and the controlling S.O.A.B took her 200miles away from her family. These constant reminders that you ladies have must be like a red hot blade through your hearts. I wouldn't have been able to bear it. There is something else I want to broach though. This may not be relevant to some of you but may be to others so I feel I must mention it. If your daughters are younger and their partners are a bit older and controlling then it may
Be helpful to explore 'Stockholm syndrome' in respect of domestic abuse. Both myself and my daughter and her solicitor are convinced this was a major factor in my daughters relationship with her ex and the cause of all our misery. Certainly it helped me understand things better. It made me realise what had happened to my once loving affectionate daughter. If this is the case for any of you then it will be a matter of holding on tight and waiting it out. But at least it may help you understand why your own child is behaving in this way and it helped me realise that it wasn't me and that she did still love us but was unable to even think it. I hope i'v been able to help at least one of you. My heart goes out to each and every one. I will try to follow the tread from now on

Oh Smileless your bit about Christmas toys and the red engine, brought tears to my eyes and I did that intake of breath just before one cries, one of the nearest moments of me actually crying. I had such a bad and painful night, the pain in my heart..I thought it was going to shatter and disappear1 I've a new mobile and was messing about on it this morning, trying to get used to it and I've managed to get a photo of Laila and Jack as the home page and then one of Laila in a very pretty little floaty dress as the wallpaper, wasn't sure if it was a good idea to have the pics under my nose all the time, even when I'm out but couldn't take it off again, just had another look, maybe I'll leave them, they are so cute.
You can get the Black Cohosh in Holland and Barrett.

Glad to hear you're back to 'shaking your boogie' Yogagirl HRT does help keep your skin looking good; not sure about every thing else though. Never heard of Black Cohosh, can you suggest where I can get some info. about it as I know my time for HRT taking is running out and it may be something I can go on to when my doc pulls the plug (not literally of course).

I know the old adage is that hindsight is a wonderful thing but I think it's a curse. When our situation kicked off my hubby had gone to nasty S's house to give him some money we owed. He was out but our d.i.l. answered the door. When he asked when we were seeing our gs again she began by saying she didn't know, then we would have to sort things out with nS before eventually saying that we wouldn't be seeing him. My hubby let slip that we had thought about the poss. of going to court by saying 'there are other ways'; she responded with 'take us to court then'. That was enough. nS couldn't believe his parents would consider taking their own son to court. I pointed out that desperate people do desperate things, and I couldn't believe that he was putting us in the sit. where we
really felt that we would be stopped from seeing our gs. That was the 1st of 3 times he gave his word that we would always be able to have a relationship with our gs, and the beginning of the end.

You must have seen the writing on the wall Yogagirl and realised that losing contact with your beautiful gc was looking more and more likely. If you hadn't gone to court don't you think they would have 'found' another reason? I think we would have been given fairer treatment by the thought police from George Orwell's 1984 novel than we received from those two monsters down the road.

Came home from shopping this morning and saw the childminder with two little ones, one of them a little boy toddling along. If I'd looked closely (I was in my car) I probably would have been able to tell if he was ours but I couldn't bring my self to look too closely.

Shops filling up with children's toys for Christmas. I saw a beautiful red fire engine to ride on complete with a big shiny silver bell. He would love that wouldn't he? They don't seem to realise that they're not just depriving us, they are depriving their children too.

Morning Girls
Glad to hear you had such a good time at the Michael jackson concert Smileless. I've never taken HRT, I do take Black Cohosh which is a plant derivative. You need to make sure you are taking the natrual HRT otherwise the one using horse urine is abusing horses, they keep them tethered in a small box, keeping them always pregnant to collect the hormone rich urine! not nice. I did go recently to the Dc. to ask if I could go on HRT, but he said no as I am through the menopause now, I wanted it as I've been told it keeps your skin and everything good! So hope Black Cohosh is doing the same trick, not sure it does when I look in the mirror though .
My work is physical, so I get more than enough exercise with that, on my day off I do a double dance class which I love, when this nightmare began, I stopped dancing, as I just couldn't bare it, but Im back and 'shaking my boogie' again
Your right not to have the no. 13 number plate, Celebgran, I will have nothing to do with anything with the no.13. My dad died in bed 13, when the Doc's said he just had a virus, I left him in hospital that night, thinking he would pos be out the next day, but when I ph in the morning they said he was dead!!! big shock! This whole year 2013 has been hell on earth for me.
Your BP is def high due to all this stress you've had Celebgran, try Yoga, that will help. I think every little misdemeanor is hightened with our sorrow, I know mine is.
We are not to blame for our sad situation, its our nasty s.i.l, but I now do blame myself going to court and therefore burning my bridges, 'hindsight'! I had yet another bad night last night, awake at 4am with thoughts of my beloveds going round and round, I cant believe it will be a whole year next week

Thanks yogagirl for saying white is in colour! Have seen lot we have 63 number plate did not want 13 we have had enough bad luck!

Hi ladies glad concert was good smileless. We go to loads stuff to try keep our spirits up.

Help hope we can cope with white car there is hand car wash top road only £5!

With my knees not keenon 2 seater idea we have our little Rosie King Charles to consider! Sounds fun though!

Was. Nightmare at Colchester hospital to try and park and ended up queuing as machine out order and went over my hour grrrrrr dr was nice as always but I got very emotional as my oh had blamed me again on Sunday and consultant always asks me about our situation as she blames it for my blood pressure. She did say may be good idea try halve dose ie cut patch in half for 4months see how I go. I felt drained afterwards.

Been to friendship club this afternoon was chatting to lady who I know quite well is a client and she said why did your husband go to see your daughter without you she did not feel he should have done, in some ways I agree like I am some sort of non person and it panders to her I feel.

Yes is horrid seeing little girls even mums and daughters I find sad do you yogagirl. Well of course you must. Sadly nothing we can do but get on with it, once I saw old school friend of. My daughter with her mum and babe at swim pool I went home and cried my eyes out !

My oh going out tonight I some ways a break we are niggling bit and after he has said that is is my fault about our daughter I feel very hurt for a long while no amount of apologies help. I am not kind burnt hate tv on during day wheni got back from club he is watching tv kitchen mess shopping still to
Put away love him dearly but god he is untidy!

If any of you lovely ladies were MJ fans then 'Thriller Live' is a must see. I haven't enjoyed my self so much since all this began. Over 2 hours of great music and even better dancing meant I didn't think about my horrid S and lovely gs for the duration of the show. Even if you weren't great fans it would be worth going if it comes to a theater near you; just to keep your mind off all those sad thoughts we have every day.

I love white cars Celebgran' but *Yogagirl is right, they do need washing more often. Our last car was white, we got a new one in April and went for a red 2 seater sports coupe. Well there didn't seem much point in getting another family car, which had been the plan so we could take our gs out for fun days, as we don't have a gs to take out! It's quite funny really, when you can afford cars like that you're that bit older and getting in and out isn't as easy as it used to be! The added bonus was the green eyed look our nasty d.i.l. would have had when she saw us in it for the first time.

Every MJ song makes me think of my S because like me he is (or at least was) a huge fan. I always have music playing so he grew up with his and even taught himself a dance routine to 'Billy Jean' complete with moon walking and performed it at my friends' son's wedding. I have it on video; he was brilliant and that was just one of many occasions I was so proud of him. I wonder if he will ever do any thing again to make me proud instead of ashamed. I asked my hubby if he thought he would still be a fan or if hearing his music now, reminds of the terrible child hood he says he had and the awful mother he says he was inflicted with. Wish I could meet her one day; they say every one of us has a look a like. Who ever this terrible woman who raised my son is, must be mine!

It is upsetting to see children the same ages as the gc we cannot see. I even find it difficult watching ads. on the tv - what a state of affairs to be in. Distraction, if only for a short period of time is another useful coping mechanism Yogagirl. I started walking twice a week with a friend in the summer; 4 or 5 miles per walk, and although it is sometimes talked about, the fresh air coupled with the fact that after we've walked for a while we have to conserve our energy by not talking has really helped to bring down my stress levels.

Two months ago I joined a gym. I was a gym fan for many years up until about 4 years ago. Ironically the first gym I joined was owned and ran by my horrid S's i.l's. We were friends long before our children ever met, and it was my d.i.l.'s mother that intro. them! If only we had known then what we know now. Exercise, even low impact is a great way of coping with stress which helps lower blood pressure. Hope your meeting with the hrt specialist was fruitful Celebgran. I think it's brill. and have been on it since I was 33 due to an early total hysterectomy. My doc. tried to get me to come off it last year but I intend to take it for as long as I can. Margaret Thatcher was still taking it in her 70's; not sure if that's a good ad. or not .

I also hope we've heard the last of the fireworks, why do they have to go for days on end? I'm just pleased that I now have house cats and don't have to panic because they're out when some idiot is setting off fire works a week before or a week after Nov. 5th.

Morning Girls
Hope we've heard the last of the fireworks, it drives my little dog mad!, Would have thought a white car would cost more as its the 'in' colour Celebgran, trouble with white is that it needs washing often! I did buy all the stuff needed to wash my car myself, but todate never have, always get a hand wash whilst in work, lazy. Your doing the right thing having just one car, road tax is so costly now.
I've heard that before about putting your sad thoughts into a box, closing the lid and thinking of something happy, I will try to do that, it is the best way, but on the other hand I don't want to forget them and I want to think of them, catch 22.
Went shopping in Tesco yesterday morning and was reminded why I started shopping at night, so many 'little Lailas' about, made me want to cry
How was the Michael Jackson concert Smileless ?

Morning yogagirl smiless and otw well done otw thoughtful post.

Great we can be here to offer support to each other and indeed anyone going through this hell.

I had lovely lunch out with my old friend yesterday and we went folk dancing last night which is always fun if exhausting!

Colour of our new car is white! I fancied red but would cost lost more to order that colour so hey ho White is lovely!

Hope we doing right thing cutting back to one car but sure will be ok will just have take oh to work one day week not far.

Wishing you peaceful day. Yogagirl good friend told me when these upsetting thoughts come as they will stop mentally put the. In a box close lid and think of your nd or something happy it take practice but it does help! Try it.

I was away early today often am and is so damn hard I don't want this horrid rift never have but if I don't accept that cannot change it however much I want to will go mad.

Off see my hrt specialist today she will want know h things are so will have go through it but need advice about coming off hrt according to gp just want my blood pressure to come down.

yogagirl and please don't beat yourself up about what you may have done differently you are not to blame any more than I am.

Enjoy your meal and my tribute smiless.
His song one day in your life makes me think of daughter so much he died year it all went wrong.

Morning girls
I second that re OTW.
Got through another day, got through another night, but woke very early, like you Smileless thinking about the Xmas to come. It will be my second Xmas without my little beloveds. I try not to think about this hell, but I just can't, think about it every minute of the day and night, if I find that I've gone 10mins without thinking about it, I really congratulate myself, my ND doesn't want to talk about it either, I try really hard not to bring it up, but it always sneaks in somehow! Wonder what your m.i.l will say about the transformed pic! I've thought about my D wedding album that I made up for myself, there's one of s.i.l's mother with my Laila, its a lovely one, but I think she will be cut off in the next day or two and I'll put the pic of my Laila up on its own. My ND told me to put the pics away, for my sake, (she has pics up in her house too) but I said I wouldn't, they are my GC and the pics stay, as painful as it is to look at them. I do understand what you mean though Smileless as the pics are of when we were in their lives, I went once on my D Face book page, and there was a pic of the back of my Laila's head, as she had had her hair plaited, it looks very pretty, but even looking at the back of her head I could see she had grown and it did upset me. So I'll not go on it again, my ND goes on to get some news, thats how we found out about the Tarantula spider!
Made me smile when you asked about colour of car, they do say ladies choose their new car by the what colour it is lol. Enjoy your 'moon walking' tonight Smileless [happy]

What a lovely post Otw10413 it is so nice to know that although your nightmare is over that you continue to support and inspire those of us who are still suffering for you.

Evening girls . I am delighted to hear about everything that's going on in your lives !! New cars , a little in house graffiti , dinners ; in short , to hear that you are living your lives . Now if your minds turn to the injustice of my previous and your current situation and despair and frustration builds, do a right turn into a moment when you felt justifiably angry with the treatment you received ( I'm sure we can all think of at least one ) and realise that we don't really want , nor do we have to be treated like this in our lives , no matter how much we adore our children . I'd like to thank all of you for the support given to me , I really remember the days I salvaged from the pain by working to look ahead , inspired by words from you gnetters . I managed to block thoughts that highlighted the loss of them from my life and concentrated on trying to be a good parent by not allowing the abuse to wreck my days . It's the hardest thing in the world but post your successes ; it's a joy to read them !

I did have a good day yesterday thanks Celebgran. Like you I had some family and a friend round for dinner. My mum and bro have also been excluded and are very upset by all that has gone on. Unfortunately the conversation went on to our nasty S and s.i.l. I just wish we didn't have to talk about it all of the time. It would be nice to try and forget if only for a few hours. The same crowd with 2 additions are coming for Christmas dinner and I just hope we can avoid talking about it. It will be our gs 2nd Christmas; the 2nd one when we wont see him. I'm thinking of putting gags in the crackers just in case!

Great news about your new car, what colour did you get?

Talking of Christmas, last year my m.i.l. was given a family photo portrait of the tormentors and our beautiful gs. I've made a point of not seeing it as I find it too upsetting and prefer to remember him at 8 months which was when I last saw him. Despite several requests from my hubby not to have it on display in the living room as it upsets him to see it, it is still there. Hidden behind other family photo's but enough of it on show to bother him. So there he was on Sat. lunch time when he realises he has a black felt tip pen in his pocket. Having always been a fan of realism in art and true representation (not really - just my excuse for what happens next) he decided to draw a pair of horns on our d.i.l.'s head! Isn't that just brilliant? The sort of thing I would do what just shows that being married to me for 33 years has had a detrimental effect on him; and about time too. All we have to do now is wait and see who notices first. Mummy wont be very pleased but it serves her right for not moving it to another room and being sensitive to our plight.

I also felt alone Yogagirl until I started coming on to this site. The advice is invaluable and I feel better now than I have since this terrible nightmare started. Logging on and reading every ones contributions is now one of the highlights of my day.

We are taking my bro out for a meal tomorrow night and then the theatre for his Christmas pressie. The show is a tribute to Michael Jackson and is supposed to be excellent. My bro and I were huge fans and were fortunate to see him when he last performed at Wembley so I hope he enjoys it.

Keep every one.

Morning Girls
Good luck with your new car Celebgran it sounds like it has lifted your spirits, so good buy, enjoy your little bit of happiness.
Strange how many parallels there are in our stories, with our holidays Smileless and many more things! I feel much better when I come on here too, it empties my brain of all the sad thoughts, hearing others sad same stories makes you feel less alone and of course all the good advise from grans that have been there and got the 'T' shirt. And you're right Smileless about s.i.l finding any excuse to get me out of the picture.
for all

Smileless and yogagirl hope you both had good Sunday !

We had our daughters godparents for a meal went well .

I had not read then bel mooney bit in yesterday's. Paper we were so busy yesterday we are getting new car yippee! Met friends for drink last night so not noticed it, she is very go if find at advice I wrote to her myself and she did not print it but emailed me privately. She was so sorry for me and did not know what to say quite honest really!

We decided to sell.my micra and our Astra which we had over 4 years fro. New and get new Astra and share it!,exciting.

Life goes on!

Thank you Glassortwo for providing the link to Bel Mooney's problem page. I've just read it and wonder what my S would think if I sent it on to him. I wonder if there was something in the water when we were raising our children to have managed to inflict on the world such nasty, selfish and self centered individuals.

It is heart warming to know that things have turned around for you Otw10413 to celebrate. I hope and pray everything goes well. I have only been on this site for just over a week and feel much calmer thanks to all of you lovely ladies. Sorry Yogagirl if I got the sequence of events wrong regarding your D's. ann. If they're any thing like my S and d.i.l. - and they certainly appear to be - anything would have been used as an excuse and if you hadn't actually done anything, no matter how small, they'd have made something up.

Life just isn't fair is it; I have two sons and the nice one is in Aus. but I am counting down to April 2014 Yogagirl when I can hold my lovely boy in my arms again; all 30 years and 6' of him. It was interesting to read what you said about events coinciding with holidays. We were away for 3 weeks during which our S blocked our land line number.

To have to have panic buttons Yogagirl is, well, I don't know what to say; and believe me that doesn't happen very often I am and in equal measure. I guess your s.i.l. thought a snake was a suitable gift for a toddler, being a snake himself. When I read the opening of your last post, I thought you were going to go on and say something amusing; still can't believe what you've been subjected too for you.

I heard about that daughter and s.i.l that killed her parents and buried them in their garden!! I told my ND that if I disappeared, to dig the garden up, as along with the hate-mail I also got death threats, the police advised me to get my house alarm checked out and put panic buttons in, which I did and now have panic buttons on each door and by my bed! I always take my little dog out for a little walk before I go to bed, my neighbour pleaded with me not to, but if I don't my little dog sits at the bottom of the stairs looking up as if to say "where's my walkie then?" and wont settle without her walk.
She hates these fireworks!

Me again
Just read the article from Bel Mooney, there's a lot of us pushed out grannies about!!
I wish I had controlled my reactions Kiora and kept quiet for more than the 2mnths that I did, and not sent any emails (3). How long was it for you Kiora and how did it all end??
Smileless their anniversary was 10 days after I was told to "f***-off", so I mean I may have stopped it going any further, if I'd gone round with the flowers and card then. Apparently my D was livid with the email, as I sent it on their ann. day completely forgetting what day it was, as I was in shock from what had happened. The email was just pouring out my love for her and my GC, it was the bit at the end saying 'loosing my GC is not an option' that got her mad!