Car/friends, the latest! (Cross warning!)

I wonder how long the cheque will have to linger in their bank account until it's been 'cleared'...? And what about the number plate? Any recompense for the radio/cd player? As someone's already said, it beggars belief...

Can only repeat, these people are not your friends. Did you see the damaged vehicle ? If you have proof that the car belongs to you and they are just insured to drive it then not returning the car or full insurance value is a crime, surely.Cressida is right, speak to the police.

Sorry Cressida was in a bit of a doo dah earlier getting ready for my fortnightly visit to the Job Centre.

You are absolutely right. The thing is I don't want to have a major fall out at this stage, I just want them to get the cheque and then pay me. I'm certain that they will, but all the lies along the way have left me feeling, well words sort of fail me.

Phoenix, did you read the link to the Police website? Because your friends were the ones who would be driving the vehicle rather than you the V5 had to be filled in to inform the DVLA. Unless you specifically told them you were giving them the car it still belongs to you. If you said you would lend them your car then you haven't sold it to them.

It says in the link This is particularly true with a company car which is owned by the company, however the registration document should show the registered keeper, i.e. the day to day user (this may be an employee who has it as a permanent perk with his/her job).

What your friends have done is a sort of similar situation to a salesman failing to return his company car on leaving the company.

Just got back and read your terrible saga. Have you thought of contacting the BBC? Sounds silly I know, but programmes like You and Yours love tales like this using them to warn others that being a lovely, trusting, honest person has drawbacks. Sometimes a call from them with the possibility of being shown up before the world (well, their friends at least) works wonders. I tried it once using our local radio station, although the problem was rather different. One call from Radio Norfolk and all was fixed.

Ah, and therein is another problem! To make it easier for them to arrange tax and insurance we signed the car over to them, i.e. the V5 was transferred to them, like "selling" the car, but no money changed hands. Yes, I know, stupid of me but it seemed like a good idea at the time.

Actually, there is a difference between being the registered keeper, and the owner. If you have one of those lease/purchase arrangements, you are responsible for taxing the vehicle, but the company you have the lease arrangement with are still the owners.

I'm hoping that there will be some progress next week, if not, well, then I will have to take steps.

Phoenix, you are still the owner of the vehicle. The V5 tells the DVLA who is the registered keeper of the vehicle.

https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q743.htm

As you still own the car it might be worth having a chat with the police just in case your 'friends' might have 'stolen' the vehicle since they don't appear able to return it to you.

Just read your latest saga phoenix and words fail me Just can't imagine "friends" behaving in such a way. I wish I could provide some kind of solution - apart from earlier suggestions of a brigade of grans forming a disorderly mob outside their house and demanding justice for you x

Some very good advice here. You need to know your legal standing *phoenix" before you discuss the problem yet again with your so called friends.

Have you any documents to prove that the transaction was by way of a loan, phoenix? Otherwise, although you have the moral high ground, I fear that you might be on shaky ground legally. But don't take my word for it. Some solicitors will do half an hour free advice and it would be worthwhile phoning round to see if there is one of these locally.

I think I might be looking at the small claims court route by now. You are in a very difficult position Phoenix but surely it's time to take a stand?

This is a dreadful story phoenix and my heart goes out to you. Unfortunately I doubt you can get details from the garage etc. because on the face of it J and B are the legal owners. I am afraid, if you haven't already done so, you need to get legal advice

phoenix Can you believe anything that J tells you though, as she seems to be a practised liar?

harrigran I transferred ownership to them via the V5 (or whatever the damn thing is). They then had the responsibility for taxing and insuring the car. No money changed hands, it was just the transferring of the vehicle the same as one would do if buying/selling a car, i.e. the filling in of the slip at the bottom of the document, then sending it of to the DVLA

However in some ways that worked out for the best ( ? ) because as J never tires of telling me, they insured it fully comp, whereas third party etc would have meant no way to claim.

Lots of good advice but the fact is that this is probably a crime. To borrow and not return or to deny the owner the use of their car/ whatever is theft by misappropriation.

Excellent advice gracesmum and unfortunately it is now something else because of these 'friends' giving Phoenix added stress. As if this pair haven't put her through enough..

As you say "any reasonable person etc.", I won't put in words on here how I would actually describe them.

I think you need to get everything in writing in as calm and dispassionate way as you can and and write to them. I have pm'd you my thoughts on what a possible letter might contain and hope that being objective and factual might take some of the personal grief out of this sad situation. I have also suggested you ask for copies of all correspondence with the garge and the insurers. Keep a copy of the letter for a solicitor if it comes to that, for the insurers if there are grey areas there and of course it gives your "friends" an opportunity to clarify their story and agree or challenge the facts as you see them, I am not suggesting for ONE NANOSECOND that you are not totally in the right, but written corroboration could be useful if it ever comes to legal action (in case they change their story again)and by putting it in an unthreatening way you are still making it clear that the final resort might be just that. It also reiterates that the loan was to help them as friends in the short term, not a gift and that you personally are now out of pocket. Any reasonable person would be falling over themselves to make it up to you.

Excellent suggestion gracesmum

Good idea GN.

Is it possible for Mr. P to have a word with the husband, Phoenix? Some men take more notice of another man.

I imagine you have got a note of all the lies and unfulfilled promises somewhere phoenix, if not could I suggest you prepare a list and at some point sit down with them and just go through their inconsistencies and how they have let you down. Worst case scenario, you say you will put it in the hands of a solicitor if they do not give you the current value of the vehicle, return the number plate, return the (removable - as you out it in) radio and anything else which has left you out of pocket. You have been more than fair and- frankly if this puts them in a difficult position well, so be it - it is nothing compared to the expense and inconvenience to which you have been put. I wonder if there is any sort of independent arbitration available at CAB? They have to realise that you are not a bottomless pit of funds for them The friendship has long since gone by the board, now you need to be businesslike.

www.gransnet.com/forums/am_i_being_unreasonable/1200175-Doing-people-a-favour

Try this one.

Bum, doesn't look like it worked!

It was in the AIBU section, "doing people a favour"

sara4 not sure if this will work,

cm.g.doubleclick.net/push?client=ca-pub-1533521060959988

Doesn't tell the pre-history (i.e. the bits about what I did to tey to help when my friend first had the stroke) but should give you a bit of an idea.